[music]

Alison Stewart: Good afternoon. From WNYC, I'm Alison Stewart. Here now the news of a book celebrating beloved local TV anchors. How many of you back in the day would get home after a day of work or school just in time for the 06:00 news to hear the duos like ABC's Grimsby Beutel, NBC's Scarborough, and Simmons, CBS's Jensen and Smith? Here now the news was, of course, the tagline of eyewitness news anchor Roger Grimsby.

His catchphrase is also the title of a new book all about the iconic anchors of the New York local news scene of the '70s and '80s. The book is called Here Now the News: An

Inside Scoop into New York’s Best-Loved Anchors with some great behind-the-scenes stories, and author Jerry Barmash, himself a veteran of New York broadcasting, joins me now to bask in the nostalgia of this era. Hi, Jerry.

Jerry Barmash: Alison, great to be here. Thank you so much.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to hear from you. Did you grow up in the '70s and '80s in New York? Did you watch the local news, eyewitness news, Jim Jensen on CB, or were you loyal to Chuck and Sue on NBC? Call us, text now. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. What do you remember about watching local news during this time period? How important were the news broadcast to your family? Any favorite memories?

Still, got a theme song in your head? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC, or maybe you actually worked for WCBs, WABC, or WNBC in the '70s and '80s. We would love to hear your inside stories. 212-433-WNYC, 212-422-9692, you can call us that number. You can text us at that number. You can also reach out on social media @allofitwnyc. First of all, thinking broadly about local news during this time period, what about this time period made it unique in local broadcast journalism?

Jerry Barmash: Well, for one, this was the only game in town for broadcasting. You didn't have TikTok. You didn't have Instagram. There were no cell phones. You didn't have Internet. It was the local news at six o'clock. There wasn't even a five o'clock yet. They did an hour of news. The ratings were just off the charts, especially eyewitness news. I'm sure we'll talk about that. That was the place.

If you wanted to find out news, you couldn't go to your phone to find out what happened and find a snippet there. You would go to the TV at six o'clock, and it was appointment television. It was home after work. It was dinnertime, watching it from 6:00 to 7:00 and then 11:00 at night, and that was it. Three networks, ten o'clock News was for Channel 5 and to a lesser extent, Channel 11 PIX, and that was it.

Alison Stewart: Why was New York such an important market for local news anchors?

Jerry Barmash: It still is. It's still the top market. Whether it's TV, radio, New York is still for anything, is the place that people want to go and attain success, whether it's finance, whether it's even TV and movies. Everything seems to always get driven by New York over the decades. When it comes to broadcasting, I talk about in the book, people come to New York, and it's the top market.

They're professional, and they've earned their stripes because they worked, whether it was in Atlanta or Boston, Los Angeles, all great markets with millions of viewers. New York was the place that you wanted to get to. Another thing about New York, not just because there were so many viewers in New York, but you had that chance. You had that dream of getting network.

Alison Stewart: Yes, that was my next question. Is that it?

Jerry Barmash: That was certainly on everybody's mind. Maybe not the first day or the first week or month, but it was something in the back of their mind that we're here, we're this close to getting on network programming, network content. The thing with that is you're right down the hall. Some of these were right in the next floor for NBC or CB's or ABC. You talk about close proximity. It was all right there, so you couldn't escape it. For many of them, they got the opportunity just because of the, almost as a default, because they're doing this work, and they're right there, so they were able to get fill-in opportunities. We can discuss some of that.

Alison Stewart: As well as you can imagine, people are calling in. Let's talk to Joel from Jersey City. Hi, Joel. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Joel: Yes, I enjoy this topic so much. Grew up in this era. I want to find out-- Jerry, I'm a friend of yours on Facebook, by the way, what did you notice about the expansion? Why was this such a huge expansion of the growth of news during that late afternoon, 4:00 to 6:00 PM period, when there was only a movie, the 4:30 movies on Channel 7? Then NBC had, Channel 4 had a movie, and there was other things.

Mike Douglas used to be on in the late afternoon. It seems like in the late '70s, early '80s, there was a huge expansion of news. Now, there's even more explosion of news, even more hours per day. What is it with reason? Money, obviously, but beyond money, is there any other reason that this all was the case? Also talk a lot more about Roger Grimsby and Bill Beutel's chemistry and personality as far as being a comic duo in addition to being a newscaster.

Alison Stewart: All right, we got two of those. First of all, you talk about the 4:00 to 6:00 in the book. Start there.

Jerry Barmash: As I said at the beginning, there was no five o'clock. Now, there's that 5:00 to 6:30, by the way, because all the network anchoring, the network newscasts, all go 6:30 to 7:00. That was in the day where 7:00 was the evening newscast. Somewhere along the line in the late '70s, early '80s, there was a decision to expand to five o'clock, and that five o'clock became 5:00 to 7:00 first with Channel 4, WNBC. They did something called News Center 4. Lost to time, but more than the name or the anchors or even the two hours was the set. This really was this huge.

Speaker 1: Huge.

Jerry Barmash: Exactly. This Sci-Fi set they were taking on what was the space craze, the Star Wars, all of the close encounters. They built the set. I talk about in the book, the set was so huge, and they had a Broadway set designer that created this huge monitors. It was so big, they had forgotten they didn't have room to get the cameras in there. They actually had to reconfigure it and cut out areas for the cameras to be able to move around. It took them longer, and it cost them more money. It was a mistake, but ultimately, they were able to create it and use it effectively for about six years.

Alison Stewart: Let's go to the second part of his question was about Grimsby and Beutel. They were famous in New York. They anchored eyewitness news together for 16 years. Let's take a listen.

[music]

Roger Grimsby: Good evening. I'm Roger Grimsby, Here Now the News. They were forced from the burning deck of the luxury liner. [crosstalk] They spent $7--

Alison Stewart: How did the two of them first form a partnership?

Jerry Barmash: It's interesting. Roger Grimsby was at Channel 7. Should I say Channel 7 or WABC?

Alison Stewart: Either way.

Jerry Barmash: Whichever, was there since 1968. He started Al Primo, who's the man behind Eyewitness News, brought him in from San Francisco. He was doing something called Roger Grimsby and the News or Noisemakers. They had Rona Barrett, they had Tex Antoine, they had Howard Cosell. Each one was doing a different element in the news. They did that for two years, and it didn't work. It didn't work for Al Primo. He wanted to change things. That ultimately became the melting pot of news, which was Eyewitness News and the legendary, iconic eyewitness news that would be transformed not only in local news in New York but across the country.

As far as the Roger and Bill. Oh, Bill also had done local news in New York in the '60s. Then he went national, and then they brought him back in 1970. Starting in 1970, it was also having two anchors, which was not the norm, still two white men. I want to talk more about how race became part of this era. They were together until 1986. While other places were changing, they took a little longer. They had great chemistry together.

Whoever the anchors are, whether it's Chuck and Sue, whether it's Roger and Bill, whether it's Jim Jensen and whoever, Roland Smith, Rolland Smith, and Dave Marish, there was always this yin and yang of personalities, someone who was more attuned to more breaking news, maybe more attuned to sports and entertainment. With Roger and Bill, you had someone who was more of the witty person in Roger Grimsby, the sardonic person, even dressed better. Bill Beutel was more of the dapper person, almost the straight-laced and the straight man to Grimsby. It worked.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Kenny. Hey, Kenny, thanks for calling all of it.

Kenny: Good afternoon, guys. Wanted to throw out a name at you that I haven't heard mentioned yet, which is Ernie Anastos. Do I get any love from Anastos?

Alison Stewart: Ernie Anastos?

[laughter]

Alison Stewart:: Any love for Ernie?

Jerry Barmash: Any love for Ernie? Well, he's in the book. There's a few chapters. One chapter is called, this is a quote, and it's the chapter titled Hollywood Version of an Anchorman. That's what someone referred to him as. It's not a negative. If you had casting from Hollywood, that's the person. Other people had told me, and I will use this anecdote. Someone who worked at Channel 7 for many years, retired not too long ago. He was in house. He was a videographer. He did a lot of stuff, editing, and stuff.

He told me one time about Ernie, Ernie was great, but not the breaking news person. If you had breaking news, he could handle it, but usually, you would have to give it off to someone else. Not a Roger Grimsby or a Bill Beutel or others. He said, "If you change the name," and he said, this is what he said, he says, "I'm Harvey Schwartz," whatever. He would say whatever was in the prompter. Even though he knew his name, he would say whatever was there. I'm just saying, I'm the messenger in this.

Alison Stewart: Jerry Barmash, he's a veteran New York-based journalist and broadcaster. His book is Here Now the News: An Inside Scoop into New York’s Best-Loved Anchors. We'll take more of your calls after a quick break. This is All Of It.

[music]

Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Allison Stewart. My guest is Jerry Barmash. His book is called Here Now the News: An Inside Scoop into New York’s Best-Loved Anchors. Let's talk to Steve. Hey, Steve.

Steve: Hi.

Alison Stewart: Hi. Tell us your story.

Steve: Okay, thanks. This is a great segment. I moved New York in 1971 to attend college, and I started watching Eyewitness News. For the first time in my twelve years of watching any news on TV, I saw Roger Grimsby reading the news from a teleprompter, making eye contact and just making a very compelling presentation of the news. At that time, Bill Beutel was still reading from a stack of paper script, and it took him several more years to get to read from the teleprompter.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling. I'm going to ask you a question about some drinking.

Jerry Barmash: Okay.

Alison Stewart: It was local lore that the 6 o'clock news was okay. Anchors would go out in between, and the 11 o'clock news, things could happen. Is that true?

Jerry Barmash: It is true. I knew the legend of this going in, but I went in with open ears and an open mind. I was surprised how much there was from people that were telling me about the drinking. I would say if I had to pick one person who was the main culprit, probably Grimsby Beutel would be second. I think it was John Johnson, who a longtime colleague at Eyewitness News, said that, I didn't do a blood test, but I would say he held his liquor. It rarely ever made it between the 6:00 and 11:00 for viewers.

I don't know if they say that that means that they're so professional, that they could hold their liquor. That's not necessarily a requirement as professionalism. I do document in the book at least one occasion where there was a Christmas party. They were all there. Those famous words, Christmas and party, the alcohol was definitely flowing, and it made it on the air. You heard some people referencing how this one was in the bag, this one's half in the bag, and things like that. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: Let's go to WCBS. Jim Jensen, he was the station's lead anchor for nearly 30 years. How did he make a name for himself?

Jerry Barmash: Well, he made a name for himself. He was with CBS. He was with the network. He was actually a pool reporter covering Robert F. Kennedy, covering the Kennedy group. Actually, in 1964, he was with Kennedy in Hyannis Port, and that led him to CBS in New York. He wound up working there. He was working Robert Trout, who was a longtime CBS radio news personality and anchor. He was the anchor in New York. At that point, network anchors were doing local, and local were doing network.

It was owned by the same. It was the network was local. There were no conglomerates at that point. It was all one big family. He took over local in 1965, and he would stay there for decades. With Jim Jensen, there may have been drinking, but he was more of a smoker, and he ran into more public and personal demons that would play out with drugs with the loss of his son. It would spiral for him over the years.

Alison Stewart: Perhaps the most beloved and well-known duo is Chuck and Sue on WNBC. Let's listen to these two.

[music]

Chuck Scarborough: From WNBC TV, this is news for New York with Chuck Scarborough and Sue Simmons.

Sue Simmons: Good evening. Tonight, a second deadly school bus crash in as many days, this one in upstate New York.

Chuck Scarborough: The bus was carried [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: What worked between these two? They were so different.

Jerry Barmash: There it is, Alison. That's what made it work. They were a perfect example of Yin and Yang because, as Sue told me for the book, and everybody, I think, probably knows she only left the air about 10, 12 years ago. She had that exuberant personality. She could bring that professionally. She wouldn't talk goofy if there was a three-car crash, but she knew when to have a little bit more fun and not just with the camera and the people on the other end of the camera, but with the people on her side, including Chuck, who could be a little tighter. He was one of the best all time, but he could be very tight, very straight-laced, and very serious.

She said they were different when it came to how they delivered. The other thing is, she told me she was more into sports and more into entertainment, and he could care less about those when it came to sports. She said the only time he got any interest in sports is when his son was growing up, and it was just reading the sports, and that's it. Anytime he was talking about the Yankees winning or any of those things, it was just for show, basically. He really was not into sports.

Alison Stewart: There was a classic line she said, a curse word.

Jerry Barmash: I thought that was what you were playing. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Oh, yes. No, I didn't play that. Where she said off camera, "What the bleep are you doing?" It went on the air.

Jerry Barmash: Yes.

Alison Stewart: How did she recover from that?

Jerry Barmash: I think the way she recovered from that is because she was New York. She was beloved. As beloved in the title goes, she was the quintessential New York personality, New York anchor person. She was from New York also. For her, coming back to New York was a real homecoming. That personality, even though she's cursing on the air, and it was live, it was what everybody could relate to. It was so perfect New York.

Alison Stewart: Sue Simmons grew up in Manhattan. Black female anchor. This was an overwhelmingly white male group. I'm going to throw in Carol Martin and Carol Jenkins in there, too. What obstacles did she face, those kind of women face?

Jerry Barmash: For Sue, she came from New York, as I said, but she had worked in Baltimore, she worked in Washington, where she had a nice four, five year run there. Then she came to New York. She didn't have as much of an issue in New York. The only thing she had in New York, she said, was she wanted to perform well. She wanted to show her family and friends, look what I could-- The biggest issue she had, she told me, was she had to work with-- Not that Chuck was Chuck then. They were not Chuck and Sue when they first started. They were just Scarborough and Simmons.

They were a man and a woman. What she told me was the chemistry was not innate. It was not snap your fingers, and it was there. It wasn't. The problem she had was she had to deal with a white man. Not just white, a man, and the man was in charge and had to do not just breaking news, had to do the lead story. I heard that about Jim Jensen even if it was another man.

Somebody who used to be a Channel 11, Steve Bosh said the same thing about Jensen. He demanded he had to do the first story. That was the way it went. Same thing with Chuck and Sue. She had to learn to-- By the way, one quick thing about her personality. She was told originally that she could have that personality if it warranted, but she could only do it when the camera was only on her. She could never do it in what's called a two-shot. Almost like guilty by association for Scarborough.

Alison Stewart:: "My name is Julia, and I had the honor of working with the incomparable Sue Simmons and Chuck Scarborough. They were both beloved, authentic, compelling, and also kept things lighthearted." I'm going to go to Bridget. Keep it real tight, Bridget, you're on the air.

Bridget: Okay. First words I ever recall hearing, "Good night, Chuck. Good night, David." Second, my mother was completely obsessed with John Chancellor to the extent my father and every male in our family had to wear tortoise shell glasses. She ran into him [unintelligible 00:20:37] into him at NBC. He was wearing a camel care coat. He was so kind to her. Happiest moment of her life. My third, my sister Mary Ellen was completely besotted with Roger Grimsby.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my goodness.

Bridget: To the point that he had that Cartier watch. It took her 30 years to save up, but she got a Cartier watch, and she said she calls it Grimsby.

Alison Stewart: Love it. We're going to leave you there in our last moment. News journalism outlets, they're less trusted than ever before, but you say TV remains the gold standard in delivering local news with its reporters, yes?

Jerry Barmash: Absolutely. That's the one constant is people know they can still get their local news. The ratings may have gone down. There may be a fractured way to find broadcasting because as I said at the beginning, you've got TikTok, you've got Instagram, you've got on the web. It may be an older audience that are viewing local news, but it is more trusted perhaps than ever. In spite the fake news, claims and all of that, I think it is here for the taking, and it will not go anywhere.

Alison Stewart: My mom worked at WABC in the seventies and eighties. As a family, we were an Eyewitness News, Channel 7 fans. As a teenager, I moved over to Channel 4 for Sue and Chuck. I was, and still big fan of Sue Simmons, but can I hear some love for Kaity Tong? How about the weather, guys? Any remember Storm Field? Talk about heartthrob. It's such a good book. The name of it is Here Now the News: An Inside Scoop into New York’s Best-Loved Anchors. Jerry Barmesh has been my guest. Thank you so much, Jerry, for joining us.

Jerry Barmash: Thank you. I appreciate it. This was fun.

Alison Stewart: That is All Of It for today. Tomorrow, food historian Grace Young shares the best places to get dumplings in the city. Plus, the directors of the documentary war games game. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening, and I appreciate you. Kuva will be here. Kusha will be here tomorrow. I'll be back on Monday.

[music]

[00:22:55] [END OF AUDIO]

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.