Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in SoHo. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. On today's show, the history and impact of the beloved SoHo restaurant Raoul's is the subject of a new documentary that just had its world premiere at the Tribeca Festival. We'll hear about it from its directors. Plus, we want to know your memories of the bistro. Acclaimed guitarist and composer Marc Ribot has just released his first album of vocal music. He will perform live in WNYC Studio 5. Singer-songwriter Durand Bernarr joins us for a listening party for his new album BLOOM. That's our plan, so let's get this started with The Four Seasons.

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: You and Me]

Alison Stewart: The Netflix series The Four Seasons takes some of entertainment's funniest people like Steve Carell, Tina Fey, Will Forte, and Kerri Kenney-Silver, and puts them in some very serious situations like heartbreak and divorce, health problems, trust issues, secrets. Just like real life, there's humor to be found in those hard times, but it's the gravity of love and struggle between partners and friends that's at the center of this story.

We watch it all unfold as a group of middle-aged couples who've been close since college. Well, they frequently go on trips together. The series drops in on four such trips, one for each of the seasons of the year. The Four Seasons is based on a 1981 film by Alan Alda of the same name. He has a cameo in this series. It was recently renewed for a second season. Joining us to talk about it, please welcome series co-creator Tracey Wigfield. Hey, Tracey.

Tracey Wigfield: Hi.

Alison Stewart: Hey. Also joining us is Kerri Kenney-Silver, who plays Anne. Hey, Kerri.

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Hi.

Alison Stewart: So glad to see you. Tracey, you and Tina Fey have some history going back to 30 Rock. You have history with lots of different people on the show, very funny people on the show. We mentioned Steve Carell, Will Forte, Kerri. What did you think about the casting process for this series? Because it does require a certain muscle for comedy, but it requires a serious skill for drama.

Tracey Wigfield: Yes, and I think when we first started, when Lang Fisher, who co-created it with us and Tina, when we first started talking about the show, part of what Tina loved so much about the movie was it was these icons of comedy that you were so excited to see together and, oh, they're playing like they're married and they're all best friends. We knew from the beginning.

We knew Tina would be in it, so that would be a big draw. We knew this wouldn't work if it was just Tina and some guys and gals from pilots. It needed to be people that you were so excited to see. Not even necessarily the most famous people, but people that are really funny and really beloved. We went out to Steve Carell first. He read the script, and he signed on. Then once it was Tina and Steve, it felt like more than any other show I've ever done certainly.

It felt like, "Oh, the doors are wide open. We can get anyone we want." We reached out to Colman, and then he was going to do it. Will, Tina knew from SNL, obviously, had a long history with him. I knew him from 30 Rock. Then Kerri was someone I have since I was young, watching The State. I'm sure you love this, Kerri, when people are always like, "I watched as a young child when you were an adult on The State.

Kerri Kenney-Silver: My grandmother used to watch the show.

Tracey Wigfield: My grandmother used to watch your show, but I did. The State was one of the things that was so formative for me, and I loved watching. Kerri is exactly the perfect blend of a super funny, precise actor, but also such a good dramatic actor. Until she auditioned, I was like, "Oh, whoa, and she can do that too." It was a dream cast.

Alison Stewart: Obviously, I remember you from The State, from MTV. When did the script first come your way, Kerri?

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Sherry Thomas reached out to my agent to audition. Sherry Thomas is a legend in her own right. Just to get to read for her, because it's not just wacky sketch comedy that she does. She does some pretty beautiful, deep projects, so that was exciting. Then to find out that it was Tina Fey and this entire project, it just seemed too good to be true to even get to audition for it, to be honest with you.

Alison Stewart: All right, let's talk about Anne. Anne has so much going on. When we first meet Anne, we think she's got this great relationship with her husband. Spoiler. They don't have the greatest relationship. What is going on when we first meet her?

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Well, when we first meet her, I feel like she feels like her bed is made. They've raised their daughter successfully. She's left the nest. This is what it's going to look like from here on out, and doesn't do too much deep diving into what's good and what's bad. Just kind of, "This is it. I'm going to choose to be happy here and overlook the negative," and feels safe and comfortable until she realizes she needs to solidify that in some way with this vow renewal because she feels like it's starting to come unglued.

Alison Stewart: Tracey, where do you consider Anne in the beginning of this series?

Tracey Wigfield: Well, I think she's someone who-- Kerri had said it exactly correct, someone who is pretty set. I think that's a thematic thing in our show is the way people think about middle age, and even people who are middle-aged think about middle age is it's this time in your life where you're like, "Okay, I'm done." I made the choices and you're in the career you're going to die in. You're probably in the house you're going to die in. You raised your kids. I think it's very easy, even if you are in your 40s and 50s to be like, "Okay, and that's set, and I don't have to worry anymore."

I think what our show is about is it's actually secretly this time of incredible transition, much like when you're a teenager, and it's not just like menopause and hormonal stuff. It's like people, I think, are transitioning from one part of their life to the next chapter. That next chapter just isn't as laid out as it is when you're 25, 30. It's not just like, "Oh, and I'll get married and have kids." It's like it could be anything. I think that choice sometimes makes people go crazy. Anne, I think, is a woman who is still assuming things are going to be the same for the next couple of decades of my life.

Alison Stewart: I do want to play this clip from The Four Seasons because it really gets to where Anne is. Everybody's on the boat. They've all gone out on a boat. They've all jumped overboard. Anne has managed to go overboard. Everybody's gotten back on the boat, except for Anne. Let's take a listen to The Four Seasons.

Anne: Oh. How'd you do that?

Kate: Just put your foot on that bottom rung.

Anne: I can't reach it.

Nick: Just lift it a little higher. Let the water buoy you up, hon.

Anne: I can't.

Nick: Yes, yes, you can. Just try harder.

Anne: Just throw me the life preserver and drive me to shore.

Nick: I know you can do it.

Anne: I can't do it.

Nick: Please just try.

Anne: I don't want to try.

Claude: Oh, Madre di Dio.

Alison Stewart: Anne. Is Anne a little bit depressed, Kerri?

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Gosh, that's a great question. I think Anne vacillates between comfort and depression. Maybe she's sinking into the idea that this is safety and comfort, but it probably has a tinge of depression to it. I don't think she likes to be challenged. She likes for people to just see her where she is at and accept that and say, "That's enough," and even though she knows she's really not giving back probably what she should be giving back. Oh, it's so layered. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Real question. Was it hard to get back on the boat?

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Yes, I was wearing wet overalls.

[laughter]

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Then Steve and I were floating on pool noodles when we were doing the little kissing part of it. It was very difficult bobbing around and trying to keep the pool noodles from floating up.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] My guests are Tracey Wigfield and Kerri Kenney-Silver. We're talking about The Four Seasons. It appears now on Netflix. The seasons are a device. It's a way to get the script to move through time, to advance time, Tracey. Did you shoot in real time?

Tracey Wigfield: No, we didn't shoot summer for summer. We shot in the Hudson Valley. It was September through December, and then we went to Puerto Rico for summer. I think that was one of the challenges of doing this is that I think it would be expensive and impossible. You couldn't keep the crew. It would be too hard to shoot in real time. A lot of it, Bill Sell, our line producer, falls to him, where it's like, "Okay, if we're shooting, we can get probably one season that's real." We're running into this now in Season 2. It's like you're either going to be in bathing suits in October and be like, "Ah, it's so hot," or you're going to be on skis in November, being surrounded by grass. Then we used a combination of VFX and just stagecraft and acting to fake the rest.

Alison Stewart: Kerri, through Anne and Frank's storyline, it's how everything is based around it. Did it matter to you as a performer, whether to think about the bigger context of the series, or was it better for you to keep focus on your own character and what she was going through season to season to season?

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Well, definitely have to stay focused on what she's going through and to get even more honed in on it, really keeping the overall story out of my head as an actor, because I really wanted the audience to take that journey with Anne. I wanted everyone to be broadsided. I wanted it to feel like a car crash. I did not want to show any anticipation in any way. I feel like, in getting ready for the wedding scene with Kate, she does know that there are risks. I believe in her heart of hearts, she believes that this is going to seal the deal for the rest of their lives. I really don't think she has doubt about that. Maybe for a second, just because Kate brought it up at all, but I really wanted it to feel like everyone was blindsided.

Alison Stewart: Tracey, one of the differences from the 1981 original is that there's a gay couple. Colman Domingo and Marco Calvani. I think that's how you say his last name. Why was it important to update the source material?

Tracey Wigfield: Well, it just felt like a fun opportunity to make the friend group look a little more like our friend groups. I think if Lang and Tina and I, if we're looking at who we go on trips with and have dinner with, it's just a little more diverse than the original movie was. Also, with all the couples just taking something that's a movie and then expanding it to eight episodes of television, you just get more of a runway to tell real stories with the other couples. It seemed like such a fun opportunity to tell a story about a different kind of couple, who is also affected by the divorce in their friend group.

Alison Stewart: Kerri, I'm so interested in Anne because she goes through such a dramatic arc in this series through these eight episodes. I'm curious. I don't know if this is answering the question, but what did you learn about how someone can mean so much to you at one period of time and, six months later, you can just hate them? [chuckles] You can just not want to be around them. You do not want to be a part of their lives anymore.

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Well, I think even just hearing you tell it back, it's terrifying. I don't love surprises. Kerri does not love surprises. Kerri does not even like surprise parties. The idea that your whole world could shift like that is terrifying. I think I got very lucky to be able to be the one to play that arc in this show. Then everybody else is caught up in the whitewash of what does that mean for their own lives and for their own relationships and this, their perception of, all of a sudden, a giant mirror is put in front of each of their relationships. Yes, it's terrifying. Aging is scary. I think in your 20s, it's frightening, the musical chairs of who are we pairing up with. At this age, I feel like you feel pretty comfortable. Leave it to Tracey, Tina, and Lang to just really upend things, although I ultimately blame Alan Alda.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Tracey, what did you learn about the way that relationships can shift over time? Just looking at the whole series.

Tracey Wigfield: Yes, our writers' room was a lot of people we had worked with before like writers from 30 Rock and people we had known for a really long time, and also mostly people at this point in their lives. Everyone one is in a long-term relationship. Basically, everyone is these characters ages and is married and has children. We talked so much about like it was the first time I've ever been in a room where you spent so much time talking about like, "Well, when I got divorced, this is what it was like," or whatever.

I guess what I learned, it's like so many things are so different in the minutiae from relationship to relationship where the tiny things that become giant deals are different. So much is incredibly the same about all marriages. It was heartening, also a little depressing that it's just like, "Oh, every Kate just married a Jack." At a certain level, they all fight about the same thing. They all just want to be heard and told, "I appreciate you and you're a person." It's just like everyone is just trying to do the very same thing, but it's so hard still. People miss each other in these small ways, but it's very universal, I guess, is what I learned.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about the Netflix series, The Four Seasons, with one of its co-creators, Tracey Wigfield, and actor Kerri Kenney-Silver, who plays Anne, a woman who's trying to find her footing again after being blindsided by her husband's request for a divorce. Kerri, I wanted to ask you about your early days with The State at MTV. What is something from that time in your early comedy career that is still useful to you today?

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Well, it's interesting because we actually just had a-- At the Tribeca Film Festival, there's a documentary about The State that just premiered this week. Those guys I've been working with, some of them since I'm 16 and the rest of them since I'm 18 years old, talk about chosen family in the way that The Four Seasons is as well. It's been really interesting this particular year in real life and on television to be living this world of chosen family and longtime friendships and all those things.

It's taught me, I think, to really grab onto the people around you on set and off-set and talk about, it takes a village. I did not come from the world of sketch comedy for so many decades feeling like I was an island, and that I deserved the center of attention in any way, or that I was the answer to any scene or punchline. It really is about as collaborative as you can get. I think that helped walking into this to feel like I just want to fill in wherever I can to buoy this up and not step in and say, "Now, it's my turn to talk."

Alison Stewart: That's kind of interesting, Tracey, because the characters in this series, they have pre-existing relationships with each other, kind of the way the people in The State did 40 years. They've known each other this long. When you were writing the series and you were thinking about this series, how did you think about those pre-existing relationships? We only meet them at this time in their life.

Tracey Wigfield: Right. Right, and I think that's hard to get right. I think I've written on things and seen things that are about like they've been friends for forever. If it feels false and the characters don't have the chemistry of it, the whole thing doesn't work. I think so much of it is the performers, honestly. I think you guys are such talented actors. Some of you have pre-existing relationships. Some of you don't.

I do feel like, Kerri, you and Tina just seem so similar to me. I don't know you that well, but I feel like I've known you forever because you are of this tribe, this kind of person. I think it certainly was helped that I've known Tina and Lang for almost 20 years now. We're writing like friends. When we are breaking story, it's like, "Okay, if my husband told this to Lang, what would we do, or whatever?" That, I think, helps. It's really the nuance in the performance. It's like when you watch all of you together, it feels like there's an energy and a chemistry there that it's not just the writing. It's that too.

Alison Stewart: Kerri, did you have a relationship with any of your co-actors before--

Kerri Kenney-Silver: I had never met anyone before the first day of filming, and I felt similarly. I have walked up to famous people before on the street and felt like I know them, and then I have an interaction and realize they have no interest in me whatsoever, and why should they? I was a little concerned going in that. Well, I feel like Tina would be my friend, and then I would meet her and she would say, "No, thank you."

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Kerri Kenney-Silver: It really did fall into place in a dream-like way. "Oh, hi, nice to meet you. I'm going to be playing your best friend of 30, 40 years," and, "Oh, hi. I'm going to be playing your wife of 30 years," and action. Just the personalities that these guys cast, the wonderful humans that they brought on, both cast and crew, really made it possible, comfortable, safe.

Alison Stewart: It's been renewed for a second season. Tracey, are you shooting now?

Tracey Wigfield: We're not shooting. We're writing. We're in the fifth week of the room right now, so we'll write for a little less than 20 weeks, and then we'll start shooting in September. Yes, we're in it. [laughs] As we're doing this interview, there's something Kerri said. I was like, "Oh, that'll be good."

Alison Stewart: I was about to say, "Kerri, now's your time. What do you want to see explored with Anne?"

Tracey Wigfield: Times of nudity.

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Well, obviously, nudity. That's just what the people are asking for. No, people have asked me in interviews lately, or my husband said, "Well, what do you hope is going to happen?" This is not just blowing smoke. I could never have come up with the beautiful direction that this character took, that the show took. Every script that came in last season was a surprise to unwrap. I would not even dare to put my idea on it. I have said before, too, if we end up in Dayton, Ohio, there's a tornado coming. We can't go on any trips, and we're in a basement in Dayton, Ohio, for all the seasons. I'm sure it will be wonderful, but I'm guessing that's not going to happen.

Alison Stewart: I just want a good romance for you. That's my two cents.

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Sure.

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] My guests have been Tracey Wigfield and Kerri Kenney-Silver. They are from The Four Seasons. Thank you so much for joining us.

Tracey Wigfield: This was fun. Thank you.

Kerri Kenney-Silver: Thank you for having us.