[music]

Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Marc Bolan wasn't just the face of T. Rex, he was one of the architects of glam rock. The band stormed the UK charts in the early 70s, scoring 11 top 10 singles, four of them number ones. In the US, their breakthrough came through with the song Bang A Gong(Get It On), In Britain, Bolan was a cultural force influenced, influencing Bowie in style and sound. Throughout his life, although his life was cut short in 1977 by a car crash, his music endures. In 2020, T. Rex was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. A new documentary titled Angelheaded Hipster: The Songs of Marc Bolan & T. Rex is centered on the making of a tribute album produced by the late Hal Willner, the renowned producer.

The documentary includes archival footage of Bolan and T. Rex, plus personal insight from Bolan's partner, the singer Gloria Jones, and their son Rolan, as well as artists he influenced like Billy Idol and Elton John. Angelheaded Hipster: The Songs of Marc Bolan & T. Rex is playing at the Alamo Drafthouse in lower Manhattan this Sunday and Monday.

Starting Friday, it will stream everywhere you rent movies. Listeners, do you remember the first time you heard Marc Bolan or T. Rex? What Bolan songs did they mean to you? What did they mean to you? Our Phone number is 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. As we get our calls to come in, we are joined by director Ethan Silverman. Hi, Ethan.

Ethan Silverman: Hi, Alison.

Alison Stewart: Joining us via Zoom is producer Bill Curbishley. Hi, Bill.

Bill Curbishley: Hi there. You okay?

Alison Stewart: I'm doing great. It's good to see you as well. Ethan, how did this project get started?

Ethan Silverman: It got started because my friend, Bill, calling in from Toronto, we were working on a musical theater project that Bill had an idea for. He introduced me really to the catalog of Marc Bolan and T. Rex. I, like most Americans my age, only knew (Get it On) Bang A Gong and some songs from Billy Elliot. Bill said, that you got to educate yourself. I did quickly and streamed everything, and it blew my mind. I said, "Bill, we've got to do an album. We have to make a film. Let's like revisit this great artist. That's how it started.

Alison Stewart: Bill is an executive producer of Angelheaded Hipster and a longtime manager of The Who. When you think of Marc Bolan, what was it about him that you wanted to highlight.

Bill Curbishley: The fact was that in the early days, I was at Track Records, and we had Marc Bolan on the label. Firstly with his first band, which was called John's Children, and then after that, Tyrannosaurus Rex, which was shortened to T. Rex.

My feeling was that although he was hugely popular in lots of areas, the UK in particular, but also in Europe and some other territories around the world, he wasn't given the right, if you like, appreciation and acclamation in America. I felt that he missed it a little bit. He had the one hit, but he should have been much bigger. That's why I suggested it to Ethan, because I always felt that he deserved more recognition.

Alison Stewart: Bill, what was unique about Marc Bolan?

Bill Curbishley: He was one of the first in what we term as glam rock. He was incredibly flamboyant. He came out and showed that flamboyant nature, and his bisexuality, et cetera, and in turn, that was picked up by Freddie Mercury, by Elton John, by David Bowie, all kinds of people. He opened the door for people to basically declare who they were.

Alison Stewart: Ethan, this also turned out to be Hal Willner's last project. What was his vision? How did he decide to bring all of these artists together on this album?

Ethan Silverman: That's a great question. Bill and I wanted to do something a bit different. We wanted the songs to be featured as great songs, lyric writing, melody making, all of it, and not just say the glam rock package, although that's very much in the film. I was a huge fan of Hal Willner's from his Kurt Weill compilation, in which he had worked with many people like Lou Reed and Tom Waits, and Sting, and Debbie Harry, et cetera.

I thought if he could do something that eclectic and alive with the music of Kurt Vile, and they did a Disney album and so forth and so on, he did a Thelonious Monk album. When the record company suggested Hal, it was their suggestion. Bill and I met with him at NBC because he was also the supervisor on SNL Forever. He also had access to a lot of artists all the time.

We just said, "This is going to be a wild ride. Let's give it a try." Hal's vision was really incredible. Hal brought to it some of the strongest artists on the album, obviously. Nick Cave was the first artist who does Cosmic Dancer. His friends Bono and The Edge and U2 cover (Get It On) Bang A Gong. Lucinda Williams does Life's A Gas. Really eclectic, really all over the place. Then it was mix. Bill has a strong friendship with Joan Jett. Joan Jett does Jeepster. All of us together said, "This is a wild, crazy ride, but Marc Bolan and T. Rex deserve it. Let's do it."

Alison Stewart: It's cool to watch them work their way through the song, the way that they have to like, "Oh, should it be louder here? Should it be softer here?" It was really a cool vibe, especially watching you two do that.

Ethan Silverman: Oh, thank you. Thank you. My goal was to create cinema verite version of what it takes to put something together, because I thought that would really highlight the strength of Marc's songs and then combine it with the archival. Not just to do the straight ahead behind the music with all the archival footage and interviews with the superstars, but to meld the two together to show Marc as a living artist.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a couple of calls. This is Maddie, who's calling in from Asbury Park, New Jersey.

Ethan Silverman: Nice.

Alison Stewart: Hi, Maddie, thanks for taking the time to call All Of It.

Maddie: Of course. Thanks for having me. I'm so happy you guys are discussing Marc Bolan. He's been like, such an influence. I remember my first CD I ever bought with my own money was Electric Warrior. I played it until it broke, basically. I love the influence that he still does have and just the energy, but also the emotionality to it. I could still cry to Cosmic Dancer today and just how he really encases a lot of emotions. I'm excited to stream the movie. I love to see it.

Alison Stewart: Maddie, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Leslie on line two. She's calling in from Brooklyn. You are on the air, Leslie.

Leslie: Hey there. Thank you so much for taking my call. This is really thrilling. I can't wait to see the documentary. I am a music photographer, and really fell in love with, of course, that I image of Marc Bolan on the slider, and then years later found out it was shot by Ringo Starr, which if your listeners don't know that, I'm so happy to be the one to tell them because when I found out, it was like, "What?"

Then of course, took a deep dive into the music. I've always been a fan and always loved how influential Marc Bolan and T. Rex was. Everyone talks about how influential they were to them. Then when I moved to New York City, one of the first Shows I went to see of the Losers Lounge, which is a great, long standing New York institution, they were doing a tribute to Marc Bolan. It followed me everywhere I went. I'm just really thrilled and can't wait to see the documentary.

Ethan Silverman: Oh, thank you.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for calling in, Leslie. Bill, when you think about Marc Bolan, who was he making music for?

Bill Curbishley: Initially, I would say that he was making music for himself, and he wasn't following any trend or what other people were doing. Then a much wider view of that is that there were people out there, music lovers, who were a bit hungry for something different, and he provided that, in the way he looked, the way he behaved, and his songs. It just crashed through, really, especially in Europe and the UK. It took a bit longer in America, but we know why.

Alison Stewart: Why? We know why. Why?

Bill Curbishley: Because he was very, very English. He hadn't visited the state, so nobody had actually seen him perform. You need to do those things to get your way in and permeate through to the core audience. Eventually that did happen. He was very, very real, he had audiences, and he was in people's view in the UK and Europe initially, and that's why he became very big there.

Alison Stewart: Ethan, I want to play Cosmic Dancer a little bit. Tell us where this is featured in the film.

Ethan Silverman: Do you want to play the original?

Alison Stewart: We're going to play the original.

Ethan Silverman: Cosmic Dancer is a great story about the album and the film. We had had the idea, we had not completed the contracts or gotten a penny yet to start the album or the film. Hal happened to be in LA, was on the phone with his friend Nick Cave, and Nick just asked him, "What are you doing these days?" He said, "Oh, I want this Marc Bolan project."

He said, "I have to be on it and I have to sing Cosmic Dancer or may I sing Cosmic Dancer?" Hal said, "Yes, when can you do it?" It was basically four days later, we threw it together, musicians, a studio, a crew. I got on a plane and 12 hours later it was happening. It was because of Nick Cave's emotional attachment to the song and what it meant to him.

I believe what was going on in his personal life, with the loss of his son a year earlier, that he brought so much to it. It was the rough mix of that song that essentially got every artist to commit to the project. I will always be grateful to Nick Cave. I will always be grateful to his vision for the song and for him throwing himself into the project. I consider him the artistic godfather of the rocket that came out. You asked that song. It's emotional for all of us.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to Marc Bolan with Cosmic Dancer.

[music - Cosmic Dancer: Marc Bolan]

That was Marc Bolan with Cosmic Dancer. My guests are Ethan Silverman and producer Bill Curbishley. Their new documentary, AngelHeaded Hipster, explores Marc Bolan's legacy and the making of a tribute album produced by Hal Willner. Bill, Bolan also published a book of poetry, The Warlock of Love, which became a best selling book of poetry in the UK at the time. What was it about? What did it reveal around about Marc Bolan?

Bill Curbishley: In terms of the poetry, I was quite surprised actually, because we were talking to Joe Elliot, the leader of Def Leppard. He said he was into Bolan when he was younger, but initially he got into his poetry before his music, which was really interesting to me because he was a very prolific poet. I guess that was his exercise in terms of lyrics and extensions of lyrics, and the opening of the writing of songs. The poetry came first or in parallel, but I think it became came first before the music.

Alison Stewart: When we return, we'll hear about Marc Bolan's partner, his daughter, and more of AngelHeaded Hipster, the documentary. Stay with us.

[music]

You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. The documentary is called AngelHeaded Hipster: The Songs of Marc Bolan & T. Rex. It's playing at Alamo Drafthouse in lower Manhattan this Sunday and Monday. Starting Friday, it will stream everywhere you rent movies. I'm speaking with its director Ethan Silverman and producer Bill Curbishley. Ethan, Gloria Jones was Marc Bolan's partner. In what ways did Gloria influence his music, considering she was quite a singer?

Ethan Silverman: In a big way, because he had hired her as a backup singer to be part of the band. Marc was really first falling in love with soul music, as he said, Black music from America. Then she really became part of the band. She started to arrange with him and she had a long, deep history. Growing up in LA, she was best friends with Billy Preston from the age of whatever, from church choir, and she worked at Motown. She did arrangements for Gladys Knight & the Pips. She was also a real musician. She wasn't just a singer. They fell in love, they became life partners and work partners, and it was--

Alison Stewart: And parents.

Ethan Silverman: And parents. Rolan Bolan is a big part of the film and we are friends to this day, and I'm friends with Gloria.

Alison Stewart: Bill, I want to talk about his gender and sexuality. He wore makeup. He joked about, "I like whoever I like," in interviews, that kind of thing. As you were managing rock bands at the time, and Bolan was blurring the lines between gender, first of all, how do people in the industry react to him?

Bill Curbishley: It was very daring of him and adventurous, to be honest, to come out that way and be quite honest and truthful about it all. The reaction at first, I think was not a shock, but maybe surprise, and then delight, because it come out and it opened the door for lots of other artists to follow.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Tom, who is calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Tom. Thanks for making the time to call All Of It.

Tom: Hi. The last bit of talking about the sexuality issue reminded me the reason I came to Bolan was through Bowie. I'm such a massive David Bowie fan. I saw him 18 times. I remember seeing him on, I guess Bolan was headlining a show and David came on. I know they were friends and I know there's a connection.

Of course, the last issue you talked about, the sexuality was something that Bowie maybe put on as well, at the time, in fit and the way they dressed. I've listened to a lot of Marc's music. I'd love to probably dig in even more. I'm looking forward to checking out the documentary, sounds fascinating.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much for calling in. Ethan, what was Marc Bolan's relationship with David Bowie and how did it evolve over time?

Ethan Silverman: First of all, they met before they were both famous. They were part of the scene. They were mods. They were both probably big fans of The Who, Bill's band, and went to all those gigs. Their lives kept colliding and they became very close. Then they became very competitive, then they became close again. They were really lifelong friends from their late teens through the end of Marc's life.

They shared a publicist for a long time who is still alive, Alan Edwards, who works with Bill and The Who. Alan said the thing about David and Marc is that they were two peas in a pod. I had the great opportunity to work with Bowie when I was a very young assistant director on The Elephant Man on Broadway. I knew what kind of person David was. I knew how intellectual he was, how smart he was, and how kind and warm he was.

I felt that the British press, especially, was always trying to highlight their competition and their rivalry. I just knew what David was like as a person and as an artist. Then when I did all my research and I got everybody's point of view, I felt, no, these guys really loved each other.

They were sometimes having fun, sometimes probably jealous of each other. I think it was a true, loving friendship. That's what I wanted to bring across in the film. I think I did. Knowing David a bit and talking to a lot of people who were intimate with both of them over the years, I think I got it right, at least from my point of view.

Alison Stewart: Bill, something I thought that was interesting in the film was that Marc Bolan had a sense of what color television would mean for the fans. Could you explain that a little bit, because I found that to be really interesting. Bill?

Bill Curbishley: Oh, you wanted me to do it?

Alison Stewart: Sure.

Bill Curbishley: He did. He had that foresight. I think really what that epitomizes is that everything about him was color, and he didn't think black and white. For him to imagine how television would be, I think for him, he felt that was natural, but for us, it was enlightening.

Alison Stewart: He started his own show, right, Ethan?

Ethan Silverman: Yes, he had his own show, a late afternoon, I believe, variety show with music and stuff that was directed towards kids. It was a big success. It was when his career was slipping a little bit, and the show brought him back. In fact, and it's in the film, David Bowie broke one of the biggest singles of his career, Heroes, on that show.

They were together. They played together on the show. On that same episode, he introduced the bigger country to meaning Billy Idol. Meaning he wasn't just another punk rocker with Generation X. He was on television with the biggies. Then Marc died three weeks later after that last episode of that season was taped.

Alison Stewart: The name of the documentary is AngelHeaded Hipster. It explores Marc Bolan's legacy and the making of a tribute album produced by Hal Willner. It is worth checking out. Ethan Silverman is its director and Bill Curbishley is its producer. Thanks to both of you for being with us.

Ethan Silverman: Thank you, Alison.