Tiffany Hanssen: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen, in for Alison Stewart. Well, are you still searching for the perfect gift to give this holiday season? How about a good book from books for history-loving dads to romance novel-obsessed readers, all of it, and Get Lit producer Jordan Lauf has you covered. She's joining us now to talk about the best new books to give as presents to the literary lover in your life. Listeners, of course, we want you to join this conversation. What do you recommend as a great gift-giving book? 212-433-9692. You can call us, you can text us at that number, 212-433-9692. Hi, Jordan.

Jordan Lauf: Hello.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right. Let's just talk first about a little general book gift-giving ideas. Sometimes you know what somebody likes, sometimes you don't know what somebody likes. If you're trying to buy a book for somebody that you're like, "I don't really know-- I want to get them a book, but I'm not really sure if they like fantasy or what." Fill in the blank, right? Do you just pick something and hope for the best, or are they like safe options?

Jordan Lauf: Nothing is ever safe when it comes to buying a book. There's always a chance it'll sit on their shelf forever, and they'll never open it, which is too bad, and they don't have to tell you that's what happened to it. A couple rules of thumb I would think for me. One, I would stay away from genre because you don't know if someone loves fantasy or hates fantasy. You could buy them a fantasy book, and it's their least favorite genre of all time. I would recommend staying away from strictly genre fiction unless you know that that's something they're into.

I would stick with a selection that was popular this year, critically acclaimed. You could say, "Oh, I saw this on The New York Times list of 10 best books of the year, and I thought you might like it." That's a good way to sort of rubber-stamp the approval on this book. I would also pick something that has a lot of elements that could be interesting for lots of different kinds of people. I find historical fiction is a really good sort of middle ground. If someone's into history, they'll like it. Historical fiction also has often some deep character portraits and human interest in it. It's good for everyone.

I would also say, a really solid family drama is usually a good way to go, can be interesting and relatable to lots of different people. If you know that they love history, I think a biography is also a really nice gift, and you can look at some of the top biographies that came out this year, which we'll talk about in a little bit. That could be a way to go.

Tiffany Hanssen: I feel like you probably should have read it if you're going to give it. Do you think that's true? I could see myself-- Bad example. Giving a book that is on some list right somewhere, and I have never read it, and I give it to them, and they're like, "Why did you give me this book?" [chuckles]

Jordan Lauf: That's got X, Y, Z in it. That's really funny. I almost always give away books that I haven't read-

Tiffany Hanssen: Really?

Jordan Lauf: -so I'm the total opposite because there's a lot of stuff that I wouldn't love, but I know my dad would love. I don't want to read 750 pages on Cornelius Vanderbilt, but it turns out my dad does. If there's a great new biography about Cornelius Vanderbilt, I'll happily give it to him.

Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, dad's in history. We love you.

Jordan Lauf: Yes, I know. It's a real thing. I don't always read the books I give away. It's probably a good rule of thumb, though. I know one person who gave away Outlander as a gift to somebody and found it just returned silently in their mailbox one time, so you never know.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right. We're talking books as gifts with our book producer, our Get Lit producer, Jordan Lauf. We're looking for your recommendations as well. 212-433-9692. We got a text here. "The Island at the Center of the World by Russell Shorto. Best history book I've ever read." Speaking of history books, let's bring Julietta in the conversation. Hi, Julietta.

Julietta: Hi. How are you?

Tiffany Hanssen: Doing all right. You got a good book for us?

Julietta: Oh my gosh, yes. The Correspondent. Of course, I'm completely blanking them on the radio, but it was one of the best books that I read last year.

Tiffany Hanssen: The Correspondent. Singular?

Julietta: Singular. Yes.

Tiffany Hanssen: Okay. Virginia Evans. Virginia Evans. Is that it?

Julietta: Yes.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right. We got you. All right. The Correspondent. Jordan, we talked about people for whom you don't know what they like. What about people who are like, "I only ever read romance novels set in the 1800s"? People like that have probably read everything there is to read in that tiny little space. If you're going to buy something in that space, chances are they've got it, read it, checked it out from the library, whatever, so what do you do?

Jordan Lauf: Yes, that's a tough scenario. In that case, I would recommend not going for something within their typical genre and instead finding something they like about that genre and finding a book that has elements of it, but is not necessarily genre fiction. For a romance lover, can you find a book that is centered on a love story but isn't necessarily a typical romance novel book? For example, I think I'll talk in a little bit about Lily King. Lily King is a great novelist. She is a more of a literary fiction writer, but most of her books center on a love triangle that's really fun and emotionally involving.

You can find elements of that genre that someone is passionate about if they only love books set in the 1800s that are romance novels. Maybe find them a book set in the 1800s that's not a romance novel. If you can find a little kernel of what they like and apply it to a book, maybe that pushes them out of their comfort zone a little bit. I think that could be a good way to go.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right, Jordan, if we don't get to some recommendations here, I think people are going to kill us. You're talking about literary books. Let's start with literary lovers. What's a book that was super critically acclaimed that you think might be a good gift?

Jordan Lauf: The one book that was on almost everyone's list this year is Kiran Desai's The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny. It was on all the top lists this year. It was in the top 10 from The New York Times. Lit Hub does a compilation of how many times a book was recommended on a top list of the year. This was the number one pick from this year. It's a pretty long and involved novel. If someone's looking for something to read that'll occupy them over the winter, this is a good pick.

It's about a pair of kids from India who have each separately moved to the United States to make a life for themselves here, and they reject an arranged marriage with each other. Their families back home are sort of conspiring to get them together. They reject that match, but then end up meeting each other later through organic circumstances and discovering, "Oh, maybe this might have been a good match after all." There's so much more beyond that that I can't even get into, including a subplot about a very coveted recipe for kebabs-

Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, boy.

Jordan Lauf: -which occupies about half the book.

Tiffany Hanssen: The kebab subplot.

Jordan Lauf: Yes. It's a good one. That is a good gift for someone who wants to be in the literary. No.

Tiffany Hanssen: This is The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny, and it's by Kiran Desai.

Jordan Lauf: Yes.

Tiffany Hanssen: We have a couple of texts here. "We should get to the Scanty Plot of Ground, edited by Paul Muldoon. It's a book of sonnets. People can put it on a coffee table, pick it up any time." That's from Joanne in the East Village. "Counting Backwards by Jacqueline Friedland." Did I say that right? Do you know?

Jordan Lauf: No.

Tiffany Hanssen: I didn't say it right, or no?

Jordan Lauf: No, I don't know.

Tiffany Hanssen: No, you said, that's so wrong to be so bad, and I'm not going to tell you the right way. All right. Now, it's a novel with compelling characters, incisive look at the US eugenics movement of the early 20th century. Urge everyone to purchase books from independent bookstores and not from Amazon. Is that also a recommendation, you're saying, is, like, there--? I mean, there are. We do have at our disposal a lot of really great bookstores here. I'm thinking of, like, especially the genre ones.

I just talked when I was filling in with Alison, one of these last times with the woman from The Ripped Bodice, for example. Lots of great bookstores out there. You just have to do a little investigating.

Jordan Lauf: Lots of great bookstores. If you really, really need to order something online, go to bookshop.org. It is a way to order books online that funnels the funds through independent booksellers. You're still supporting indie bookstores even if you're ordering online. If you really have to do that, that's what I would recommend.

Tiffany Hanssen: Jordan, let's bring a caller into the conversation here. Jay in Yonkers. Hi, Jay.

Jay: Yes, hi, good afternoon. I just finished reading a fascinating nonfiction book. It's called The Mascot by Mark Kurzem. It's a story about Mark's father who had been adopted by a battalion of Latvian Nazis, who were just massacred his entire village, but they found him in the woods and thought he was a Russian kid. This happened in, what is now, Belarus. They made him the company mascot, actually outfitted him with a miniature Nazi uniform. It was only later that it was discovered that he was Jewish.

Tiffany Hanssen: Jay, thanks for that recommendation. All right. Michelle in Brooklyn, you have a recommendation? Michelle. Michelle. Wait, there's a song there. Michelle--

Michelle: Hello.

Tiffany Hanssen: Hey, there she is. Hi, Michelle. You have a recommendation for us? Okay, I don't think Michelle can hear us. All right, Jordan, let's talk about giving somebody a book from, an up-and-coming writer that they haven't heard from, especially for people who are super voracious readers. It might be good to give them something that you might not have heard, like sliding this in the DMs, like, you might not have heard of this.

Jordan Lauf: Totally. It's a good way to show off your literary expertise as well as get them in the literary. No. My recommendation from this year would be the debut novel from Stephanie Wambugu. Very acclaimed from this year. It's titled the Lonely Crowds. It's about two Black women who meet at an elite boarding school. They sort of bond over being in a predominantly white school, and then they go on to try to pursue a career in the arts here in New York City and end up in a kind of competition with each other when they find that, obviously, it's not super easy to make it as an artist in New York.

It really establishes her as a prominent and promising literary voice in the future. If you're looking to find someone who you might be really interested in following their future works, I think that's a good place to start. That's the Lonely Crowds by Stephanie Wambugu.

Tiffany Hanssen: Thank you for repeating that. Text here. "I'm not a reader, but my wife is, so I bought her the romantasy series by CJ Primer last year. She couldn't put those books down." Also, a text, "Midnight on the Potomac by Scott Ellsworth." Another text. "My favorite book to give is the ultimate Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's a four-book trilogy." That I'm not sure about in one large volume. It's older. While it appears to be science fiction, it is not. Look, I mean, I'm all over The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

I'll take that any day of the week if someone would like to gift it to me. History lovers, Jordan, we talked about dads. Let's talk about history lovers. There's a lot of Revolutionary War out there right now.

Jordan Lauf: There is a lot of Revolutionary War out there right now. It is a very good time for the history lover in your life to receive some books on the Revolutionary War. It is the 250th next year. We'll kick off the celebration. Let's say your dad just finished Ken Burns series, the Revolutionary War. As I am sure many people listening have. One author was all over that series. His name is Rick Atkinson. He was a talking head in the series. He spoke a lot. He is at work on a trilogy of Revolutionary War histories.

There are two of them that are out right now. The second one came out this year. The first one is titled The British Are Coming. The second is titled The Fate of the Day. Third one is still on the way, but if you want to keep your dad occupied reading about Revolutionary War history, he's got two books to get him started. I bet by the time he finishes those two, the third will surely be coming. That is from Rick Atkinson.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right. Let's bring Liz into the conversation. Hi, Liz.

Liz: Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I bought two copies of Brandon Stanton's Dear New York and love it, and have already given one of those copies as a gift. It was a Hanukkah gift, and the person who got it was thrilled. I think that's kind of tough. That's definitely not [unintelligible 00:13:13] book for The New Yorker in your life. Another recommendation. It's not a new book. This book has got to be 20 years old, but it's called Isaac's Storm. It's a nonfiction book, and it's about the Galveston floods and the birth of the US National Weather Service.

Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, interesting.

Liz: It's incredibly interesting. It has the drama of an interesting piece of history where you read it, and you're like, "Wow, I had no idea this could be this fascinating," but it's also a riveting story about this man, his relationship with his family, and his own inner struggle with his personal demons. It's a fascinating book, and I highly recommend it. I've given it as gifts a couple of times.

Tiffany Hanssen: Liz, thanks so much for that. I was talking with someone as I was walking to the Yankees game last year. I saw a book in her backpack, and it was the History of the US Postal Service.

Jordan Lauf: Wow.

Tiffany Hanssen: I know. I mean, I didn't even know there was such a book. Anyway, so for histories, there's all kinds of stuff out there you can start digging in.

Jordan Lauf: Yes, and sometimes the most niche stuff ends up being the most interesting. You wouldn't think a history of the US Postal Service would be that interesting, but I bet it's really fascinating.

Tiffany Hanssen: She loved it. Just going to say. All right. Robert in Summit, New Jersey. Robert, you have a recommendation?

Robert: Hey, yes. I bought three copies of a book called Flesh on Amazon because it was buy two, get one free. Kept one for myself, one for my sister for her birthday and one for my son. I bought it because of some Hungarian man, who won the Booker Prize. I never heard of him, so I read it. After I read it, I went, "What is my sister going to think of me after reading this book?"

Tiffany Hanssen: I was just going to ask that.

Robert: I liked it. I liked it, because it's more like dialogue than it is than exposition. At the end, it gets really interesting. It begins, as you may know, with him losing his virginity to a neighbor and then accidentally killing her husband. Then it goes on from there. There's a lot of sexual exploits in it.

Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, boy.

Jordan Lauf: There sure is.

Robert: I don't know what my sister's going to think of this.

Tiffany Hanssen: Well, you went ahead and did it anyway. All right, Robert in Summit, thanks so much for that recommendation. We are talking about books as gifts. We're talking with the Get Lit and books producer here at All Of It, Jordan Lauf. Jordan, a couple of texts here on our way to a break. "A wonderful debut novel by Marianne Cronin called The One Hundred Years of Lenni and Margot." Another that says, "I always find the best books from an NPR affiliate program on K-E-R-A," which by the way, is in Texas. "It's called Think with Krys Boyd. She interviews authors, writers, and always chooses the most interesting books."

We're going to talk books coming up after the break. Jordan, let's talk thrillers when we come back here.

Jordan Lauf: That sounds good.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right. More book recommendations headed your way. I'm Tiffany Hanssen, in for Alison Stewart. This is All Of It. Don't go anywhere. This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen, in for Alison Stewart. We're talking about gift giving and specifically books you can gift this holiday season. We're talking with Get Lit producer, Jordan Lauf about all of her recommendations. We're getting your recommendations as well. You can call us, you can text us at 212-433-9692.

We got a text here, Jordan, "A book that I love--" before we dive into thrillers because I did say we were going to do that. "Old School Indian by Aaron John Curtis. A debut novel about an Ashkanabe man with what appears to be an incurable disease. His great uncle, a healer. He helps him both physically and psychologically, love that book." Also, a text says, "I love giving books that are set in New York City. Two of my favorite are Richard Powers, The Time of Our Singing; and Jonathan Lethem's The Fortress of Solitude." Jordan. Okay, thrillers, go.

Jordan Lauf: Thrillers, go. I'll start with the favorite thriller that I read this year. It might not necessarily be a stereotypical genre work, but I really loved Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghy. It's definitely more on the literary side of thrillers, but it's about a family who are guarding one of the world's last remaining seed banks on a very remote island. One day, a woman washes on shore. This is not an easy place to get to. Obviously, she's come with an agenda, but she won't really say why she's in there, and when she was--

Tiffany Hanssen: Wait, she's alive?

Jordan Lauf: She's alive, yes.

Tiffany Hanssen: I was like, "Wait, her body washes?"

Jordan Lauf: No. They rescue her.

Tiffany Hanssen: Okay.

Jordan Lauf: And she doesn't really want to say what she's doing here. On the same token, it seems like there's something a little strange going on with this family that's on the island. Why is there no one else here? What's happened to those people? It's sort of a mystery on both sides. This woman's trying to figure out what's going on with the family. The family's trying to figure out what's going on with this woman. It has beautiful descriptions of nature, ecology, and animals.

If you're into that kind of thing, it's a great book. It'll keep you turning pages. It's pretty short. It's a good one to knock out by the fireplace this winter.

Tiffany Hanssen: A thriller that I think I might not give as a gift, only because you got to have a kind of a tough stomach if you're going to read SA Cosby's new book. We talked to-- He was on Get Lit. We talked to him on the show. Lovely human, really gory book.

Jordan Lauf: Really gory. It's definitely not for the faint of heart, as you said. I would only give it to someone who really loves a thriller or someone who has read SA Cosby's work in the past. He has a lot of fans out there. King of Ashes, if you didn't read it for Get Lit, this one is about a man who is living in Atlanta and has to return home when he realizes that his family has sort of ended up in the crosshairs of a dangerous local gang, and he's to figure out a way to extricate them.

What lengths will he go to to try and save his family from this gang? It's like the Godfather meets a Southern Gothic is how I would describe it. Yes, some of the scenes are incredibly gory.

Tiffany Hanssen: I'm going to fast forward here to-- We talked a little bit about historical fiction. We've talked a little bit about romance. I want to get into fantasy because I feel like we should touch on that. You have a couple of favorite giftable fantasy books.

Jordan Lauf: Yes. I have to admit that I don't read a ton of fantasy, so this is one of my blind spots. If anyone who's listening has a fantasy novel they loved from this year, I would love to hear what it is. I'm trying to fill in that blind spot. One book that is a surefire win for anyone who is a fantasy lover, if they don't have it already, is the new novel from RF Kuang. I, as I said, don't really read a lot of fantasy, but I read her novel Babel, and I loved it. This is her latest work of fantasy. It's called Katabasis, and it follows graduate students who have to journey to hell in order to save their thesis advisor.

Tiffany Hanssen: Sometimes it might feel that way in real life.

Jordan Lauf: [chuckles] Exactly. She's really good at this sort of-- I think people call it like dark academia. It's a sub-genre that people really like.

Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, I love that.

Jordan Lauf: Yes, like Harry Potter for adults, but also, like, extra spooky is how I would classify dark academia. It's set at a school, but there's some sort of magical mystical stuff happening. She's really like the perfect writer for someone who is interested in that.

Tiffany Hanssen: Our producer, Kate Hinds, chimed in here because she's a fantasy reader. Her favorite fantasy novel of the year, The Raven Scholar by Antonia Hodgson. I think there's something to be said for gift certificates, but they're kind of a boring gift. If you're really stumped, look, we gave you a bunch, we gave you some tips for buying for people whose you know what they like, who you don't know what they like. I don't know. Gift certificates kind of feel like a [makes defeat sound]. How do you feel?

Jordan Lauf: Yes, I understand. I think giving a gift certificate feels worse than it feels to receive a gift certificate. That's my take on that.

Tiffany Hanssen: Ooh, I kind of like it.

Jordan Lauf: It feels sort of crappy to just hand someone a gift certificate. It feels like you didn't put a lot of thought in. Anytime I've ever received a gift certificate to a place I really like, I've gotten Books Are Magic gift certificates over the years. I'm thrilled. Wow, I have $50 to go spend on whatever book I feel like, and I didn't have to have a sad face when you gave me a book I already own or a book I know I'll never read.

Tiffany Hanssen: Are you really going to give the sad face, though? Aren't you going to like--?

Jordan Lauf: No, I'm going to pretend I'm so happy.

Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, you're going to pretend you're so happy?

Jordan Lauf: [chuckles] Yes, that's my take. I think giving a gift card, if you're really stumped, but you still want to give someone the gift of reading, is a perfectly good way to go. You can also look for gift cards to bookstores that also have a cafe or a bar element. There's Lip Bar in the city. There's Liz's Book Bar in Brooklyn. Those places have--

Tiffany Hanssen: Now, it's like an outing.

Jordan Lauf: Exactly. You can get yourself a glass of wine while you read. You can get yourself a latte. That could sort of be a double whammy, of you can get a book, or you can get a drink. Take your pick.

Tiffany Hanssen: I love it. All right. We've been talking book recommendations for holiday gift giving with All Of It producer, our books producer, our Get Lit producer, Jordan Lauf. Jordan, thanks.

Jordan Lauf: Thanks so much.