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Melissa Harris-Perry: This is The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. January 22nd marks 50 years since the Supreme Court decided Roe v. Wade. Back in 1973, Attorney Sarah Weddington argued the case before nine men on the Supreme Court.

Sarah Weddington: The case originated with the filing of the complaint. Jane Rowe, the pregnant woman, had gone to several Dallas physicians seeking an abortion but had been refused care because of the Texas law. She filed suit on behalf of herself and all those women who have in the past at that present time or in the future, would seek termination of a pregnancy.

Melissa Harris-Perry: In the decades following the landmark ruling opponents of abortion work to weaken the court's decision. They work through state legislatures and courts across the nation. It all culminated 49 years after the passenger Roe v. Wade when the Supreme Court issued a decision in Dobbs v Jackson Women's Health last summer, overturning Roe, opponents of abortion-related.

Participant: This means everything. This is the moment that we have been working towards. This is a historic day. This is the first day that America is living in a post-row generation.

[unintelligible 00:01:27]

Participant: We are dancing on the grave of Roe v. Wade. It's like taking Normandy Beach and we will get to Berlin. We will make it a crime in all 50 states.

Melissa Harris-Perry: While a majority of Americans, about 53% disapprove of the Supreme Court's most recent decision, overturning the right to abortion, opponents of abortion look to shore up their position with their own 50-year commemoration. The anti-abortion March for Life taking place this weekend in Washington, D.C. Also hoping to seize upon the momentum from the Dobbs decision, this week House Republicans passed a Born-Alive bill.

Now it's a bill that would instantiate a requirement for healthcare providers to give life-saving measures to an infant born alive after an attempted abortion. It's an exceedingly rare occurrence, and similar measures on state ballots were rejected by voters during the 2022 midterms. The measure is also not expected to pass the Democratic-controlled Senate but still, it's a strategic signal that the GOP will continue to seek ways to curtail abortion access through legislative action.

It's a signal that we're also seeing out of the Tar Heel State. In North Carolina, Republicans sit on the cusp of a super majority that would give them the power to override any veto handed down from Democratic Governor Roy Cooper. They've got their eyes set on abortion. They hope to peel off just a few Democratic votes needed to override a likely gubernatorial veto of an abortion restriction bill.

Governor Roy Cooper: It's amazing how they're tossing around numbers of weeks when you're talking about women's reproductive freedom. I think North Carolina's law is strict enough.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Now, the governor is vowed to veto any abortion restrictions that reach his desk but meanwhile, Republican Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson is a vocal critic of abortion, and he shared in a sermon who he believes should be leading the charge in all things.

Governor Mark Robinson: We're called to be the Christians that God has called us to be and we are called to be led by men. God sent women out, what he was supposed to do when they had to do that thing, but when it was time to face down go life, sent David, not Devita, David. When it was time to lead the Israelites out of Israel, he sent Moses, not Mama Moses, daddy Moses.

Melissa Harris-Perry: North Carolina Democrats might be feeling like they're in a David versus Goliath situation. As the legislative session begins, protecting the right to abortion in the state will require def political maneuvering. With me now is representative Dr. Amber Baker, the North Carolina General Assembly. Representative Baker, thanks so much for joining us on The Takeaway.

Representative Baker: Thank you for having me.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right, let me just start with a little bit of context here. Right now, Republicans hold majorities in both houses of the General Assembly. Can you talk to me a bit about where the Democratic caucus is politically, emotionally, strategically right now, how you all have been even thinking about a general approach to this session?

Representative Baker: Actually it started last session when we were trying to be forward-thinking that we might be in this position that we're in now. We began to talk about strategy and how we would hold the caucus together to be able to support the governor's veto of any legislation that may come through. As you know we hold a one-seat majority in terms of being able to hold the veto. Right now, we're just strategizing on making sure that we hold the caucus together to be able to support and uphold the veto.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Right. Again, for folks who may not know, the governor of North Carolina, Roy Cooper is a Democrat. The Senate has a super majority of Republicans capable of overriding a veto one seat short of a supermajority in the house where you serve. Now with the GA back in session, were you at all surprised to see abortion become this leading issue? Curtailing abortion rights as a starting issue in many ways for North Carolina Republicans.

Representative Baker: They had signaled that this was going to be at the forefront of their agenda when we convened for the new session. We're not surprised. I'm not surprised they were very open about that. There were a number of things that they are striving to push forward abortion at the top of the list. Voter suppression is another one, of course, the refusal to deal with Medicaid expansion, even though the speaker has given his word on a number of occasions that we would have had a vote on it in December before the last session closed out. They've been very transparent about what they intend to do now that they have gained this power.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Right now the State of North Carolina has a ban on abortion after 21 weeks, but the Republicans have introduced legislation to curtail abortion pushing back to something like 12 or 13 weeks. Can you talk to me about your understanding of what this bill entails?

Representative Baker: It is really about them just trying to control a woman's right to make the healthcare decisions around reproductive rights. The speaker has at one point been on record of supporting the 13-week ban. Now he has shifted back to a six-week ban. In true form, they are just inconsistent with being consistent. We know that they're going to attack this. The exact strategy they're going to use is unclear, and I think the ambiguity is intentional.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Now, there's no ambiguity from the lieutenant governor here in the state. Robinson has suggested that as the 9th out of 10 children that his own mother had been counseled potentially to terminate the pregnancy of her ninth pregnancy. He's talked about this as this deep moral issue for him. He's saying specifically that there's this targeting of poor and Black women, for abortion services. Can you talk to me about the use of Black women, Black girls, and those living in poverty as this tool of an abortion narrative from Republicans?

Representative Baker: I've said to the Lieutenant Governor and to others, "You cannot legislate morality." This idea that we tie reproductive rights to a moral issue and not a healthcare issue, again is just misguided. You just cannot legislate morality. Women should have the right to make these decisions, with their doctor, and then consult with their mates around what is the best interest for them.

It's ironic that men want to have these discussions around what women should do with their bodies but there is never ever a discussion about men having vasectomies, and penalizing them for creating these pregnancies that may result in termination of the pregnancy.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. Quick pause on this. We'll be right back with more from North Carolina State Representative, Amber Baker right after this. All right. We're back with Dr. Amber Baker, representative in the North Carolina General Assembly. Democrats, obviously, are in a minority but having this slim, like one seat to hold back from veto override, it means that in order to protect a gubernatorial veto, the whole caucus has to stay together. Do you think the whole Democratic caucus is going to hold on this one or are there reasons to think that there are Democrats likely to cross on this vote and vote for further curtailing abortion access in the state?

Representative Baker: Well, I know that minority leader Reeves has really laid out a blueprint for continuing to hold us as a caucus. I think Speaker Moore with strategic by placing at least three Democrats as chairs or co-chairs on committees. I think he did that. This is just my personal belief as a way of maybe trying to use that to sway those three individuals to break rank with the caucus. I trust my leader to be able to work together collaboratively to hold us together.

We stood firm last session, even though we had a larger margin, but on the issues that counted we did stay together. I believe that those individuals will stand again on this issue because North Carolinians have spoke. This is not legislation that they want to see passed. I think that that gives the individuals who feel like they may be in jeopardy of losing their seat, if they stand with what North Carolinians have said, then it's a win-win. Overwhelmingly, north Carolinians have said this is not an issue that they want to see taken up.

Melissa Harris-Perry: North Carolina legislators noticed that if you go too far you get more public pushback. This notion of 12 weeks or 13 weeks rather than six at least initially and having some carve-outs for rape, for incest for life of the mother. I'm wondering if those carve-outs are enough to again, potentially peel off one, two, three of these votes.

Representative Baker: I would like to be able to tell you that that wouldn't be enough, but it's just hard to say. I think that people, again, have held firm. I think they're trying to be strategic in finding the right balance to get this legislation passed. I think that as a constituent of North Carolina, I think it's incumbent for them to call all of our legislators and know what they want, let us know what they want.

I think the pressure of individuals from all the counties will signal to the general assembly that this is not something that they want. The voters have more power than they realize, and I think it's incumbent upon them to start now. Writing, sending emails, sending letters, showing up in offices, and letting all 120 of us know how they feel about it. I think that that kind of pressure will help them to determine that this is not an issue that we need to move forward with.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Dr. Amber Baker, a representative in the North Carolina General Assembly. Thank you so much for taking the time with us.

Representative Baker: Thank you for having me.

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