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Melissa Harris-Perry: Welcome back to The Takeaway, I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. Nikki Giovanni is a world-renowned poet, beloved educator, and activist. The words she's written have inspired generations, including some of you.

Mel: Hi, my name is Mel. I'm calling from St. Petersburg, Florida. Nikki Giovanni is my favorite poet. My favorite poem of hers is the Poem of Friendship, and my favorite part of it is the part that says We are not friends because of the last we spend, but the tears we save. It's just a beautiful poem.

Meg: This is Meg from Los Angeles. I've loved the poetry of Nikki Giovanni since I was a teenager, and that was a long time ago. I really was touched when I [unintelligible 00:00:58] I think after the horrible tragedy at Virginia Tech. It showed me how important it is to have a poet in your miss when there's a tragedy. She gave a beautiful convocation that I remember started, We are sad today and we will be sad for quite a while. We are not moving on, we are embracing our mourning, we are Virginia Tech.

Jessica: My favorite poem by Nikki Giovanni is Ego Tripping.

Melissa Harris-Perry: You know what, Jessica, from St. Louis? Ego Tripping is also my favorite. When I was in college, I had to memorize Ego tripping when I became a part of Delta Sigma, the sorority Incorporated. I can remember standing there 18 years old and repeating, I'm so perfect, so divine, so ethereal, so surreal. I cannot be comprehended except by my permission. Woo. Y'all know I was stoked to sit down with Professor Giovanni this week. Ms. Giovanni, welcome to The Takeaway.

Nikki Giovanni: Well, thank you very much. Glad to be here.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Your work, of course, means so much to so many of us, and you have such a body of work, but let's begin most recently, can you tell me about your lyrical picture book for children, A Library?

Nikki Giovanni: I wrote about the Library because one, books are having such a hard time and those of us who love books need to fight for them. People are trying to ban books, people are fighting with libraries and with schools, and saying they don't want their children to read this, that, or the other book. The only way that human beings learn is through reading books and hearing words.

A library, my book came out simply because I had written actually some time ago about my, she was just on my mind, my library in Mrs. Long when I lived with my grandmother in Knoxville, Tennessee. Grandmother used to wash her on Monday, I think, as most people did, she had an old ringer washer. She would wash her on Monday, and when she took what she called her sit down, which was rest because ringer walkers are hard, she would say to me, "Are you going to return those books?"

I would go up to the library and Mrs. Long would be there and she'd say, "Well, Nikki, what are you reading today? What are we looking for today?" We had something else that probably most of you youngsters don't know, it's called the card catalog. I loved to go through the card catalog because you found things that you didn't know you cared about or interested in as you're flipping through, you discovered things.

That's just such a nice way to do it. Books are so important and I'm a history major, but also anybody that knows anything about the world we're living in, we know that the first thing that the Nazis did was the big night that they burned the books. People don't like books because books help people to think, help and teach youngsters to think. It's not a question of thinking in one way or the other, it's a question of thinking.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I love your reminder about the card catalog. When I was in college, my work-study job was reshelving books in the library and books in our internet world where you just go order the one title that you're interested in, you don't get to see the neighborhood that your book lives in. Sometimes you go to your books neighborhood right on those shelves in the library, you suddenly discover all of these other fascinating tributaries, intellectual tributaries that come out from each book. I do miss that tactile way that we made use of the library.

Nikki Giovanni: Well, one is fun, but it expands your world that things that you hadn't thought of, you're standing there. I am short, I'm 52" so I'm a little bit taller now than I was then, but I would always go in and get a big fat book, then I could stand on it and flip through the card catalog and see what was available. Llibraries are just wonderful.

Of course now, modern libraries, you have the computer and many of them you can take your coffee in.

When I was growing up, you didn't take any food into the library. Absolutely nothing because you can mess up the books. Now people are, and they are also, of course, libraries are having a lot of children's reading evenings. They're inviting a lot of people into the library to share books and to have book clubs. I don't remember having book clubs when we were growing up. This communication between the library and the community didn't exist so I'm very pleased to see.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Speaking of children and children's books, children's reading hour, you've written so much for children. Talk about how your own role as a parent initiated some of that impulse to write for young people.

Nikki Giovanni: Well, my son is 53 years old so it's been [laughs] some time, but of course, you read children's books, I still read children's books and my, my favorite book is Mrs. Frisbee and The Rats of NIMH. I must have read that four or five, maybe six times, and I will continue to read it because every time you read a book, it's like listening to music and people forget that.

You can't just say, "Well, I read that book." You read it again the same way we do with songs. Nobody says, "Oh, I heard Smokey Robinson, I don't have to be bothered anymore." You listen again and again and every time you listen, you get something out of it. The same thing is true with, well poetry is very easy because it's not so long. People can read a poem and reread a poem, but we don't think about our novels or we don't think about even some of our nonfiction, which actually does not have to be correct, but it does take us into another way of looking at things.

Some of Darwin's, for example, is not, we know now was incorrect, but that's not the point, Darwin says there has to be an origin of the species and we have to have something in common. He's taken us on another ride. That's what you want a book to do and you read to your kid. Of course, I'm a daydreamer and I think my son is pretty much, you can tell he is kin to me, but we look at the stars or we looking at the moon and we're wondering, well, who's up there and what's the life form and what else is in the galaxy beside us? That's always going to be a lot of fun with a little boy or with a 53-year-old man.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Let's take a quick break, but stick with us. We've got more of my conversation with the icon, Nikki Giovanni when we return.

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We're back on The Takeaway with poet, activist, author, and teacher Nikki Giovanni. She's out with the new book, A Library. It's a lyrical picture book for kids and lovers of reading alike, but Giovanni is well known for her poetry that speaks to generations. Francis from New York called us to share this piece of her favorite Giovanni.

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Francis: She wanted to be a blade of grass amid the fields, but he wouldn't agree to be a dandelion,

She wanted to be a Robins, sing into the lens, but she refused to be her tree,

She spun herself into a web and looking for a place to rest, turned to him,

But he stood straight declining to be her corner.

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Melissa Harris-Perry: Now Professor Giovanni holds more than two dozen honorary degrees and has penned dozens of collections of poetry, children's stories, and books, but she does have a clear favorite and it has everything to do with her own childhood.

Nikki Giovanni: One of the things that I have enjoyed, which is not a poem of mine, is called the Grasshopper Song because my grandfather used to read [unintelligible 00:09:29] to us all the time is very important to him because what he wanted us to learn was that you have to work. In working hard and putting something away, when winter comes, when cold times come, when depressions come, and these are all just a part of the story of America or actually the world, then you'll have something. I always disagreed that the Grasshopper wasn't working.

I don't know if you had one of those grandfathers, my grandfather was a Latin scholar. He was trying to teach us, "This is the way you look at the world. This is what you have to do." I would always say, "Well, Grandpa, but the grasshopper was working, he was making music," and Grandpa would say, "No, he was playing. He did not work. The ants were working," so I wrote a book called The Grasshopper's Song. I'm so sad that Grandpa was not here to see it. I had the grasshopper sue the ants when winter came and he needed a place to stay. The ant said, "No, you can't stay here. You should've looked out for yourself." It was Donald Trumpish of them. [chuckles] It is.

The grasshopper did the right thing, he sued them. We put a jury together, we did everything, and presented the grasshopper's case, and the grasshopper, of course, won his case. Then the ants were, as they should've been, ashamed of themselves when they realized, "Well, yes, without the music of the grasshopper, we would not have had the rhythm in order to save, to put our food away, to make our home," that that music was so important.

I love music. I think about what Black Americans have given to America and, actually, to the world when we look at what is called the old Negro spirituals. Without those spirituals, the music that the people now listen to, because the people don't hum, and I'm not against it, but the people don't hum operas, and the people just-- They don't hum-- People hum-- You just know, [unintelligible 00:11:27] somebody walking down the street humming [unintelligible 00:11:30], I think, Puccini.

Nobody hums any opera, but they hum the songs that we know and that we gave to the world. Grandpa and I argued about that until he was gone. It wasn't a big argument, but he was wrong. The grasshopper worked hard to make that music and to make the world a better place for the music he was putting in it.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Tell me what you'll miss most about being in the classroom.

Nikki Giovanni: Oh, I'll miss the kids because I am so out of it, I'm 79, and they'll come in and say, "Have you heard--" I've had the pleasure of working with a Beyoncé song, I'm aware of Beyoncé, but I'm not aware of half of the rappers. They'll say, "Did you hear so and so?" I'll say, "What is that? What a foolish name that is." [chuckles] Then they explain it to me why it's important.

Then I explain to them, "It's okay. If I have to listen to that, then I think you have to listen to Richard Wright, or you have to listen to Paul [unintelligible 00:12:29] or Countee Cullen, especially, because Mr. Cullen was-- He was gone before I came along, but just an incredible, beautiful lyric poet," or, "I had the pleasure of being taught by Robert Hayden. If I have to listen to what you're excited about, you have to listen to what I'm excited about." Then we'll talk about how they connect because they all do connect. I think I'll miss talking to the kids, just having constant contact with the younger generation.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I love everything about that response, but I do want to follow up. Can you talk a little bit more about your Beyoncé experience?

Nikki Giovanni: Oh, when she did Lemonade, and I was invited to write some part, sort of like an introduction to it. I don't mean to just throw her name around like that.

Melissa Harris-Perry: [chuckles] No, I love it. You're like, "Oh, yes, you remember Lemonade?" Yes. [laughs] We remember. [laughs]

Nikki Giovanni: [chuckles] I was thrilled when I received that call. When I went to class, I said, "Guess who called me yesterday?" [chuckles] [unintelligible 00:13:36] when I said, "You think I'm nothing. Well, Beyoncé called me." [laughs] We had a lot of fun. The kids, I enjoyed the classroom, and I enjoyed sharing my experiences and sharing the people that I knew and the people that I wish I had known and the people that I met, but not friendly. I met the queen of England, I met Queen Elizabeth.

It was just a question of sharing that with my students because you never know, if you do your best, who's listening. The queen of England asked to meet me, or it's one of those her people asked my people if I would come to Richmond because she's a horsewoman. She came to Richmond, I guess, to see horses, and her people called my people and said, "The queen would like to meet you." She said, "I really enjoyed listening to your poem, it really was very strong."

I had no idea when I was standing there trying to offer some comfort to Virginia Tech because Virginia Tech is my home-- I am a Hokie. I had no idea the queen of England was listening. It's that kind of thing, and I've said that to my students. You can't think about your audience, you have to think about doing your best. If you had asked me, "Who's listening?" I would have no idea, as we have no idea now. As far as we know, the Pope listens in to you every day.

Melissa Harris-Perry: [laughs] Oh, he's going to be shocked. [laughs]

Nikki Giovanni: He might learn something. You never really know who's listening, so you're trying to make sure that your words are as strong and as truthful as you can make them. That's what I'm sharing, and you don't know who's actually listening to you. In this day and age, you really don't because everybody is being teched, everybody's phone. There's no such thing as privacy anymore. You pick your nose, somebody is watching it, and next thing you know, it's going to be on Facebook. [chuckles]

Melissa Harris-Perry: Nikki Giovanni, poet, author, turns out also hilarious woman, educator, and of course, a bit of a guiding light for so many of us. She's also the author of the new book The Library, and recently retired from her more than three-decade career as a college educator. That is my future dream someday. [laughs] Thank you for joining us so much, Professor Giovanni. So lovely to have had you.

Nikki Giovanni: Oh, thank you. It's fun. Thank you for loving A Library. Libraries are important. You just always feel safe and warm and wanted in a library. It's just a wonderful feeling.

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