[music]

[Show - Orange is The New Black: Danielle Brooks]

Taystee: Let's get some motherfucking fried chicken up in here. Yes, I said it. I'm Black.

Speaker 2: She's Black.

Taystee: She's Black.

Speaker 2: I'm Black.

Taystee: We like fried chicken. Chicken for the people. I rest my case.

Speaker 3: I think you could really sing the hell out of the blues.

[Movie - Robin Roberts Presents: Mahalia: Danielle Brooks]

Sofia: Well, a Negro can't sing the hell out of the blues. That's what life been for most of us. Now, gospel, that's the cure for the blues.

[music]

I'm going to move on up a little higher

I'm going to meet Abram and Isaac, yes

I'm going to move on up a little higher

[Movie - The Color Purple: Danielle Brooks]

Sofia: You told Harpo to beat me.

Celie: No, ma'am.

Sofia: You's a damn lie. I loves Harpo. God knows I do, but I kill him dead before I let him or anybody beat me.

[music]

Kai Wright: It's Notes from America. I'm Kai Wright. Welcome to the show. At this week's Academy Award ceremony, Danielle Brooks was the lone representative for the 2023 film adaptation of The Color Purple. She was nominated for Best Actress in a Supporting Role for her performance as Sofia. That iconic character in Alice Walker's novel was first played on screen by Oprah Winfrey in her breakout role in the 1985 film. Oprah Winfrey has become synonymous with The Color Purple story and she's the force behind last year's film too.

She also brought the story to Broadway twice and she first cast Danielle Brooks as Sofia in one of those stage versions. The role has been a special part of Danielle's life and career ever since. I sat down with the actor a few weeks after she learned of her Oscar nomination. She was still processing what this recognition means and thinking about her relatively fast climb from a young woman studying theater to a Hollywood star. Danielle, it is such a joy to have you on Notes from America. Thank you for this.

Danielle Brooks: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be talking with you.

Kai Wright: You were born in Georgia, raised in South Carolina, like myself, you were very much a church kid.

Danielle Brooks: Yes.

Kai Wright: I know that has shaped you and shaped your career, but I understand you've said your mother is a minister and your father a deacon, and you've drawn similarities between the idea of preaching and acting on a stage. Can you explain that idea for me?

Danielle Brooks: Yes. First of all, I'm a storyteller and a huge part of teaching people about God and Christianity is through stories, is through the Bible, which holds fables and you get stories like David and Goliath or Delilah, which was my favorite because she was this woman who cut off Samson's hair and he lost all his power. I just thought it was the coolest story ever. At the end of the day, both are serving the purpose of when people enter into the space, whether that's church or into a theater of some sort, you don't leave the same way you came.

I've found so many similarities being the strongest one through the way in which church works. You have a minister or you have a soloist singing and I got to observe when people were moved, when I was moved, and when people weren't, what worked and what didn't. I was able to watch deacons say the scripture that the preacher was going to be preaching from when I couldn't hear what they were saying or when I was like, "They should have been articulating a little bit more because I didn't know."

I just felt like it was so similar, especially in the Black community because you're going to get that response immediately and we're very honest with our responses. With us, we're going to tell you what was working and what ain't working. My love for this art form came through church.

Kai Wright: You got into Juilliard at 17 years old and you found yourself playing secondary roles up until your fourth year. You brought this issue up to your faculty's attention. They, in turn, decided to run A Raisin in the Sun to give you a principal role. Can you just tell me about that experience and what happened and how it informed how you go about your work?

Danielle Brooks: [singing]

All my life, I've had to fight

[laughter]

Danielle Brooks: That's what this was. When I came into Juilliard, I was 17, like you mentioned, I was young. In my class of 18, there were only two Black girls, myself and my good, good girlfriend, Joaquina Kalukango, who's now a Tony winner. It was just us. Unfortunately, I got the short end of the stick and was always given best friend number three, or playing “Auntie Juju” or “soldier number four,” “witch number two.”

I started to say, "I'm in my fourth year. I'm about to leave this place not knowing what it is to have more than four pages of lines in a play. About to leave here not knowing how to stand 10 toes down as a leading lady. I need to get my money's worth." I went to the head of the drama division and I sat with my notebook and told him every role I had played. I said, "I see a pattern here. I don't like it. Is there anything we can do about it?" I have to say, I was terrified, to be honest. I was terrified-

Kai Wright: Really to speak up in that moment.

Danielle Brooks: -to speak up because I didn't know if they were going to just write me off as a problem child and just be like, "You know what? Girl, you should just be happy to be here." I didn't know, but they were actually really receptive and so I did play Ruth in A Raisin in the Sun, and then we ended up doing Clybourne Park as well, which gave me a good sizable role to bite my teeth in. That was so great because what people forget about school at Juilliard, what people might not know, I should say, is that when you do a play, you only do it pretty much for a weekend. You work on this play for four or five weeks and then you only get four or five performances of that play.

Even when I left Juilliard and then started to do plays, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm now on the stage and having to keep the engine running, keeping those words memorized and all this stuff for a month now or two months now." That was a shock to the system. I'm so grateful that I said to them I need more to bite my teeth into so now when I come out, I can understand and sustain this thing longer because then I ended up stepping into Color Purple on Broadway and doing that for a year. Think about going from Juilliard, doing the show for four days to now doing a show for a year, that's a big shock.

Kai Wright: Indeed. Indeed. Indeed. How did you get the strength? You said at the moment you really were worried that they would dismiss you. What did you draw on to say, "No, I have to speak up."

Danielle Brooks: I think my fellow actors who were Joaquina, who were Corey Hawkins, especially Corey because we really had this thing about pushing each other into our greatness. We just did it naturally. It was like I don't know. I just feel like we were both set to be in each other's lives to continue to remind each other, "You got this, you can do this, don't be afraid." I really think it was just conversations that I was having with my Black counterparts at Juilliard that pushed me to say, "I'm not crazy. This is factual. I should be receiving and deserve more here in my education so go ask for it," and so I did.

[Movie - The Color Purple: Danielle Brooks]

Sofia: Howdy, sir. About time me and you was introduced. Tell him who I is, Harpo. [laughs]

Harpo: Well, Paul, Grampy, gents, I wants to introduce y'all to my girl. This here is Sofia.

Kai Wright: Corey Hawkins plays Sofia's husband Harpo in The Color Purple film. In that clip, we just heard Sofia announces her pregnancy to 'Mister' who is played by Colman Domingo. Danielle, you and Corey have been friends and collaborators since you were studying together at Juilliard. What's the community of Black actors like in Hollywood in general?

Danielle Brooks: In Hollywood? Oh.

Kai Wright: Yes. Is it like a group chat or [laughter] stay connected? That spirit that you're describing from Juilliard, is that something that still happens?

Danielle Brooks: This is a fun question. I do have my Juilliard crew, like my Black Juilliard crew. We do have our own little group chats. Some of the people that I call my circle in Hollywood would definitely be Corey. I mean my tight circle. These are the people that we share numbers with, what we're making on projects and deals with, we really are trying to continue to grow and expand in this industry, and in this business; would be Corey, Nicole Beharie, Teyonah Parris.

Those are my core folk that I talk to. And then you have other people like I've been so fortunate, so beyond fortunate to have these pillars that I could go to and talk with. There's been Octavia Spencer, there's been Epatha Merkerson, Alfre Woodard. I just connected with Viola Davis not too long ago. Definitely, Oprah Winfrey has been a huge mentor during this process, and Sam Jackson and Latonya. Those are like the aunties and uncles for me, and I think they will always keep it real with me if I ask them a question about this industry.

That's only the Black folk. I definitely feel I have my white counterparts that I can go to as well and ask them questions, which I think is important too because, as we know how this industry works, sometimes they're the ones who really had the end in and know what to ask for, and how to get it done.

Kai Wright: I'm Kai Wright, I'm talking with Danielle Brooks, who is nominated for an Academy Award for her role as the iconic character Sofia in the 2023 reimagining of The Color Purple. Coming up, we'll meet Sofia, the defiant and spirited Southern Black woman who has left from the pages of Alice Walker's novel, and we'll see her through the eyes of Danielle Brooks.

Danielle Brooks: For me, I've always looked at it as I'm telling somebody's true story.

Kai Wright: That's just ahead.

[music]

Kai Wright: It's Notes from America. I'm Kai Wright. A special welcome to our new listeners at Colorado Public Radio and at Blue Ridge Public Radio in Asheville, North Carolina. Glad to have you in the community. My guest this week is Danielle Brooks, and we're talking about her role as Sofia in the 2023 film The Color Purple. It's a musical reimagining of the 1985 film, which first lifted Alice Walker's novel off the page and onto the screen and stage. For Daniel Brooks, it's a return to the role she first embodied in the Tony Award-winning Broadway musical version.

The Color Purple, as you have said has just been a huge part of your life and career. Your father took you to see The Color Purple on Broadway at 15. Now you're Sofia, talk about the way this play and this story has shown up in your life. What has it meant to you?

Danielle Brooks: I was just getting emotional about this because I think what I'm experiencing right now, Kai, I'm sort of going in mourning.

Kai Wright: What do you mean?

Danielle Brooks: I've been with Sofia for so long, and even though I have stopped playing her in the movie, I've been talking about her for months, during this press run. When I talk about her, I'm being asked, "What has she taught you? What lessons have you learned from her?" When I really reflect on that in my life, she has given me so much on an artistic scale, and on a personal scale. I just know come March 10th, when the conversations are over, and nobody's asking me--

Kai Wright: After the Oscars.

Danielle Brooks: Yes. After the Oscars, that chapter is really done. It's going to be complete, and that saddens me because I have taken so much from Sofia. She's teaching me how to fight for myself when I've lost that before. There's been moments in this industry where you do feel like, "Man, maybe I should settle for this. Maybe I don't ask for more in my contract, or maybe I just say okay to that when I really didn't want to, or vice versa."

Now after playing her, but also, this gift that keeps on giving, having more agency behind me, having all of these nominations and like BAFTA and SAG and Oscars and Critics,’ she's really given me ammunition to really fight for what [chuckles] I want and deserve in this industry.

Kai Wright: I was wondering how she has evolved for you over the years of her being in your life, this iconic character. Even for me, she's changed as an idea over the years since I first read Color Purple to watching it now.

Danielle Brooks: Yes.

Kai Wright: How has she evolved for you?

Danielle Brooks: In the beginning, she was teaching me that there was a space for me, and that portion of my life was when I was 15 when I saw this character, this full-figured woman played by Felicia P. Fields, being so bold and brave and living in our skin and saying, "Hell No". That was the first lesson.

[The Color Purple Ensemble - Hell No: Felicia P. Fields]

Felicia P. Fields: I feel sorry for you, to tell you the truth, hm. You remind me of my momma. Under your husband's thumb, no.

Kai Wright: Felicia P. Fields played Sofia in the first Broadway version of The Color Purple in 2005. When Oprah Winfrey revived the show in 2015, Danielle Brooks stepped into the role for the first time. It was a moment in which her career exploded. She'd been playing the character Tasha "Taystee" Jefferson in the popular and critically acclaimed TV show, Orange Is the New Black, and she'd won a Grammy for her role as Sofia on stage.

Danielle Brooks: I was terrified to be on that stage because I started to have impostor syndrome, from everything clicking so fast for me, and getting Tony-nominated, and now having a Grammy and all these things were just happening and getting to do Orange Is the New Black at the same time. People were really seeing my talent. I was starting to feel like, "Oh, no. No, this isn't supposed to happen like this." Sofia taught me that I have all the power that I need inside of me. Like I can do it. I can say hell no to my fears. I can say hell no to that I'm not enough and I'm not worthy. She taught me that.

When I came into playing her this past year, 2023, that's when she taught me to own my power. I've gone through all of these things in this industry, and now "It's time to own it Danielle. It's time to land it. It's time to just kick that door open the way I do at the top of Hell No and come into the house. It's time to show the world who you are." Even now, after playing her in this next phase, even though I'm not on stage, but I'm still connected to her, is the fight, fighting for myself.

I might not win, shit, I ain't been winning, [laughter] I won in a sense. I definitely know I have won in a sense. I haven't been winning but I'm not going to stop fighting. I'm not going to give up and just throw in and say, "All right, that was great. Cool." No, I'm going to fight till the end.

[Movie - The Color Purple: Danielle Brooks]

Sofia: I loves Harpo. God knows I do, but I'll kill him dead before I let him or anybody beat me.

Kai Wright: I have to ask that, you can tell me no, but I have to ask if I can get a little bit of Hell No from you.

Danielle Brooks: Of course.

Kai Wright: Would you get us a little bit of it?

Danielle Brooks: These speakers they won't bust out. [laughs]

Kai Wright: [chuckles] Bust out the speakers. Bust them out.

Danielle Brooks: I'm only doing this for you because they ain't coming with a check. I'm just doing that.

Kai Wright: Oh. [laugh]

[MUSIC - The Color Purple: Hell No!]

All my life I've had to fight

I had to fight my daddy

I had to fight my brothers

My cousins, my uncles too

But I never, never, never, never, never, never thought

I'd have to fight in my own house

Kai Wright: I am blessed. [chuckles] Thank you for that.

Danielle Brooks: That's for anybody who thinks I didn't really sing that.

[laughter]

Kai Wright: Nobody is confused. Nobody is confused.

Danielle Brooks: A lot of people think I didn't sing Mahalia.

Kai Wright: In there?

Danielle Brooks: Yes. I sang all of the songs when I played Mahalia.

[Movie - Robin Roberts Presents: Mahalia: Danielle Brooks]

Mahalia: Lord, I got to thank you

Thank you for being so good to me

How I made it over?

Had a mighty hard time

You know my soul look back and wonder

Kai Wright: Danielle played Mahalia Jackson in the 2021 TV movie, Robin Roberts Presents: Mahalia. She was an executive producer on the project and received an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Television Movie. Certainly, her biggest small screen role is as Taystee on Orange is the New Black.

[Show - Orange is The New Black: Danielle Brooks]

Taystee: They call me Taystee because my pussy be delicious like an apple that’s nutritious, like a Clinton is ambitious. You want to mess with all that? Bitch, please you best be running stat.

[cheering]

Kai Wright: Taystee is hilarious and quirky and endearing, but also an inmate who was sentenced to life in prison. In The Color Purple Sofia is also incarcerated. She's beaten when she refuses to be Ms. Millie's maid and sent to prison. I asked Danielle Brooks about the relationship between these two roles and the experiences of these two Black women with strong spirits locked behind bars. Is there any relationship between the two for you? Did Taystee inform Sofia in any way?

Danielle Brooks: Yes, I think she has. I think the thing that I took away from Taystee was because Taystee was in just a horrible situation. The woman had to go to prison for a crime that she didn't commit and spend the rest of her life in prison. I think what Taystee was teaching me was like, "Did you still have purpose? Even though your situation might be horrific, you still have a purpose as long as you have breath on this earth." I think that helps with the Sofia story as well is that we watch Sofia truly lose her spirit.

[Movie - The Color Purple: Danielle Brooks]

Celie: I'll be back next week. Now you eat some from here. I'm going to get you out of here.

Speaker 8: I said time to go.

Sofia: [cries] Don't leave me. Don't leave me.

Danielle Brooks: Her spirit is-- they took it from her. We talk all the time. There's a song, as you grew up in the church, this joy that I had, the world didn't give it to me and the world can't take it away.

Kai Wright: The world can't take it away.

Danielle Brooks: The world took away her joy and her spirit. I think that's what I kept keeping in the back of my mind was, "Okay, how can you show the audience there's still purpose? There's still purpose." Because that's the thing about when I did it in the play version, you don't really get much more of Sofia after the jail and all that stuff. You go to the dinner scene, you find out that she comes back into herself, and then you just see her again at the end.

With our version, there was a bit more of seeing Sofia after she comes into herself again and has this renewal of spirit. I really was trying to figure out how do I maneuver that because she isn't the same Sofia? When we see her at the passing and the funeral of her father, who is she now? When we see her at that Easter Sunday dinner, who is she now? I felt like whether it came across to the audience or not, I just wanted to keep in my mind that there's still a purpose. We know all the traumas that she's been through. Play her with the intention still, with this intention of there's still something worth fighting for.

[music]

Kai Wright: I guess I just wonder about these kinds of stories about this particular experience of Black women who have had to confront our criminal justice system. When I think about it, I don't see a lot of it. You don't see a lot of that on screen, at least not in the way of these two characters.

Danielle Brooks: I see what you're saying. For me, I've always looked at it as like, I'm telling somebody's true story. There is a Sofia out there. I think about Fannie Lou Hamer and what she had to endure, getting beat in prison. I think about what she had to endure. She was a real-life Sofia. For me, it's really giving voice to the voiceless, which we used to talk a lot about when I was doing press for Orange, but it's so true.

It's giving voice to the voiceless and seeing these women as more than their situations and understanding a lot of the times, they are in those particular situations because they were trying to fight for some justice. I think about Black women who are incarcerated because they were trying to get their child in a different schooling zone to have a better education, but because they used somebody else's address, now they're going to go to prison for-- You know what I'm saying? A lot of the times we are fighting for a better life for our loved ones at times or for our men at times, whatever it is.

What I hope that people take from these two characters is to give more grace and understanding to who they are. I think that's why it was so cool like truly have these two women, Taystee and Sofia, be so humorous because they knew like really get to pierce into the heart of someone and then say, "Look at me, see me, feel me, understand me, take the time to understand who I am as a person and not just see me as this hotheaded, Black woman who's just aggressive." There's so much more to who we are. I think I was able to use these two women to hopefully allow people to see that.

[MUSIC - Shirley Caesar: This Joy I Have]

Shirley Caesar: This joy that I have

The world didn't give it to me (oh, oh, oh)

This joy that I have

The world didn't give it to me

This joy that I have

Kai Wright: I'm Kai Wright. I'm talking with actor Danielle Brooks about her Oscar-nominated role as Sofia in the 2023 movie adaptation of The Color Purple. Before we return to my conversation with Danielle Brooks, a note about an upcoming show. Throughout this election year, we're going to be doing shows that I'm calling just vibe checks with particular groups of would-be voters. Next week, we want to hear from those of you who consider yourselves Democratic party voters who would almost certainly be voting for Joe Biden this fall but have found that you cannot support him because of the way the administration has handled Israel's bombing and invasion of Gaza.

If that's you, I want to hear what you're thinking and what you're doing. Where does it leave you in terms of your participation in democracy if you just can't support either of these major parties? You can leave us a voice message at 844-745-TALK. That's 844-745-8255 or you can record a voice memo on your phone and email it to us at notes@wnyc.org. Be sure to include your first name and where you're calling from. We'll use some of your messages in the show. Thank you.

[music]

Kai Wright: Coming up, we return to my conversation with Danielle Brooks and talk about her next project, which is just about as far away from Alice Walker's storytelling as you can get.

Danielle Brooks: I'm doing Minecraft, which is incredible because this is the stuff that I really enjoy. It's an action animated film, but it's also with us in it. It's half animated and half realism. What excites me about it is just opening the possibilities for Black women, specifically plus-size Black women, just showing that we can do way more than play inmates.

Kai Wright: That's just ahead.

[music]

Felice León: Hey, it's Felice León from the show team at Notes from America with Kai Wright. Something happens to me when I listen to the show, no matter the topic or the guest, I can always think of someone I want to tell about what I just heard. And I do. If you're thinking about who in your life would enjoy this episode or another episode you've heard, please share it with them now. The folks in your life trust your good taste and we would appreciate you spreading the word. Thanks.

[music]

Kai Wright: It's Notes from America. I'm Kai Wright. This week, I'm joined by award-winning actor of both stage and screen, Danielle Brooks. Danielle, we asked our listeners questions to ask for you on our Instagram account, NoteswithKai is our Instagram account. We asked them and they have some questions for you. I want to share a few of those with you. The first is from Pam in Harlem, New York.

Pam: This is Pam from Harlem. You were my absolute favorite character on Orange Is the New Black. I recently saw you in the production of The Piano Lesson on Broadway. I was curious, which do you find more challenging, working on stage versus working on the screen? And why is it more challenging?

Danielle Brooks: What's up, Pam? [laughs] Both have challenges. One, for theater eight shows a week, hoo wee, that ain't no joke. Especially if you're in a musical because you have to be an athlete. You can't go out. There's certain things that you can't eat, dairy or cheese, things that will just close up your throat or make it harder for you. The theaters are so dusty. You're always trying to like be around a humidifier or something. You can't stay out too late. You need to condition. You need to work out and move your body. It's a lot. It's like being an athlete so that has that challenge. Also, just like if you're doing something like August Wilson and you want to do it right and get those words right, that's a lot. [laughs]

Kai Wright: It's a lot.

Danielle Brooks: It's a lot.

Kai Wright: August Wilson will put you through it, I have to imagine.

Danielle Brooks: Oh my gosh. Yes. So that's tough. Then also doing film can be tough too because doing something like the dinner scene where I do go into that laugh, into the cry.

[Movie - The Color Purple: Danielle Brooks]

Sofia: [laughs] She called him a sack of dead horse shit. Now, if that ain't worth the joy of laughter, I don't know what is. I'm going pass me them beans. [cries] I want to thank you, Ms. Celie, for everything you've done for me. I was feeling mighty bad, rotting in that prison cell, but you came and seen by me every week.

Danielle Brooks: Finding that over and over and over, you can shoot that for hours because you're getting so many different shots and coverage moments. And you want to be present for your fellow actors, even when the camera's not on you. That is hard as well.

Kai Wright: Both is the answer. Here is Stephanie from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Stephanie: Hi, this is Stephanie calling in from Raleigh. I had two questions for Danielle. My first question is, what project are you working on next? Because I love you and I think that you are an amazing actress and singer. My second question is, do you ever plan on doing something in comedy in the future? I just think that you have amazing comedic timing. I just thought that that's something that I would love to see you in next. Thank you.

Danielle Brooks: [laughs] Child, no. Thank you for your question. I am not a stand-up comedian at all. Okay, no. I thank you for thinking that I could do it, but that's such a skill that I have not harnessed at all. My next project is here in New Zealand, a day ahead of you, wherever you are. I'm doing Minecraft, which is incredible because this is the stuff that I really enjoy. It's an action animated film, but it's also with us in it. It's half animated and half realism.

What excites me about it is just opening the possibilities for Black women, specifically plus-size Black women. Just showing that we can do way more than play inmates. We can do a lot more with our storytelling and showing the broadness and wideness of the expansion of who we are. So that's exciting. I'm running around with Jack Black and Jason Momoa over here and Jennifer Coolidge, Caden Kinnick. The cast is crazy.

Kai Wright: Well, I'm looking forward to that. One more listener question. This is a text message from Evelyn in Long Island, New York. She asks, "Are you related to Niecy Nash?" I know that as Black people, we are all cousins or play cousins, but the people want to know if you are actually blood.

Danielle Brooks: [laughs] It is very true, Kai. Niecy Nash is my cousin through DNA testing and so is Sterling K. Brown.

Kai Wright: Really?

Danielle Brooks: Now, they are not related, but I'm related to both of them on opposite sides of my family. One's on my dad's side and one is on my mother's side. Yes, that is true.

Kai Wright: How about that?

Danielle Brooks: That is true.

Kai Wright: How about that? Okay, well, people have been told y'all are in fact blood.

Danielle Brooks: We are cousins. It's so cool. [laughs]

[music]

Kai Wright: The DNA testing Danielle mentions wasn't random. Just before we spoke, she appeared on an episode of the PBS show Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates Jr. It's where he uses these DNA tests to trace people's ancestry. Danielle had really just found out about her famous cousins. Since she had spent so much of awards season on red carpets, being famous, and celebrating her nominations, I asked her what all those awards really mean nowadays.

I wonder, though, about for actors, performers today, given how much access you have directly to the people who consume your work, to your fans, and are able to hear how it impacts their lives and shows up for them. I wonder if things like awards matter in the same way to you. Obviously, Oscars are important. When an actor would've to rely on critics or award gatekeepers for validation, I just wonder if that's any different now.

Danielle Brooks: Ooh, it is tough. It is tough because any actor that tells you they don't want it is lying, they're lying. We want it. It's especially the Oscars, it's like our Super Bowl. This is a huge deal for us. From the outside eye, it seems like it can be such a life-changing moment. I think more than anything for me I know that when I watched these award shows as a little girl and I saw Whoopi Goldberg and I saw Halle Berry and Lupita up there receiving awards and hearing their speeches

Halle Berry: This moment so much bigger than me.

Danielle Brooks: That was just like--

Halle Berry: It's why every nameless, faceless woman of color that now has a chance because this door tonight has been opened.

Danielle Brooks: When you see Sonic Boom and I don't know Sonic Boom for real but I can only imagine like that. They start racing and that fire comes out of them, the back of them. That's what it feels like. I just get this adrenaline rush of encouragement and motivation to keep going and to know that you can be that for somebody else. I would be so honored. I think what I know now for sure and what I have to continue to remind myself is that I am already that, I'm already that for someone. The most important validation is the validation that I give myself. That's what I have to remember.

I tell you this one would mean so much obviously because of my relationship to Sofia and how meaningful this character has been for me. More so than that, just the legacy of Color Purple. I just think about 1985, 11 nominations, not one win. This being such a huge, impactful story for our community, for Black women. It's left such a huge mark in American cinema and for us to do this again and only have one nomination for this particular project out of all of those stars, all of the magic that was made, it's just disheartening. For me, I want this win for all The Color Purple family. That's what I--

Kai Wright: For all The Color Purple past and present

Danielle Brooks: Past and present. Alice Walker, all of them. At the end of the day, we already won. It's already written. We just got to walk through it. God has already said what has to happen.

Kai Wright: You know that you are already for somebody that rocket fuel. How did you come to that? How did you come to that understanding for yourself? Because I know you've said in the past that you struggled with dealing with fame and feeling like it was truly yours to have.

Danielle Brooks: To be honest it happened last year. For the first time, I wanted to quit. I have never felt that way in this industry. I've never shared it but I looked down on people who would say they wanted to quit. Because I was like, "How could you want to give up on this industry? You need tougher skin." I just didn't understand. Now I get it because this industry is so unfair, unbalanced it can be so ugly. It can be so much about business that you forget about the human behind the business, the quote it's tough. I was going through that and I wanted to quit and I had to dissect the reason why. It was because that huge no that I thought was huge was so wrapped up in the validation of other people.

That's when I said, "Oh, that's not healthy. No, you need validation for yourself, Danielle. You need to validate yourself. You need to know your worth." Once I got that in order, which took some time, a lot of prayer, a lot of listening to gospel music, crying in my car taking my daughter to school. Once I finally tapped into that I think that's what's helped me to release when things don't always go my way. I'm at the big boy stage now, so I'm entering into parts that only a few know about or can have access to, and working with certain people, and all of that stuff is that life-changing stuff. I'm at that stage so the stakes are higher

Kai Wright: That makes you be harder on yourself as a consequence

Danielle Brooks: Oh yes and way more pressure. It's so much more pressure.

Kai Wright: It's interesting because people would think the opposite, right? It's like, oh, you're succeeding, it's success like now--

Danielle Brooks: The thing as a Black woman these opportunities don't come that often. That's the thing. They don't come that often for us, especially as a plus-size dark-skinned woman. You out here clawing for the thing. What I'm knowing is if God brought me to this, you best believe it's going to happen again. That's what I had to remember when I talk about that faith, that pendulum, if it don't swing in my favor this time, he's going to show up again. There will be another opportunity and it will align just how it's supposed to align. That's what I feel even with this Oscar stuff. It might not be my time Kai, to be 100% honest, 9t might not be my time, but it will come back. This will not be my last time at the Oscars, it won't.

Kai Wright: You have had a remarkable career. It all began with Color Purple. What would you tell the 15-year-old self now going on their way to see The Color Purple for the first time?

Danielle Brooks: Get ready for the ride, girl. Because It's going to be the time of your life. Don't be afraid of moments when they don't go your way. Don't be afraid to continue to share yourself, to be vulnerable, to fall and get back up. It's going to be all right because when you find your feet and you find that walking path to take, girl, like Niecy Nash, what Niecy say? "You gone girl with your best self." That's what I was saying. It's like my cousin says, "You gone girl with your best self." [laughs]

Kai Wright: Thank you for all the work that you have done.

Danielle Brooks: Thank you, Kai.

Kai Wright: Thank you for this generous time and for a little bit of free performance of Hell No.

Danielle Brooks: No. Thank you for your time and what you're putting out into the world and giving us voice and space and talking about very important subjects in a very intelligent way. That should be definitely saluted as well.

Kai Wright: Thank you. Thank you.

[music]

Kai Wright: Danielle Brooks Brooks did not win the Oscar this year, but as she said, it surely will not be her last nomination. Before I wrap up, let me remind you that we want to hear from you on a topic we're covering in next week's show. It's a vibe check with voters who are wrestling with how to vote this year because of the violence happening in Gaza. Was this a simple election for you before that war broke out?

Sebastian: This is Sebastian calling from Ohio.

Susan: My name is Susan. I am a registered voter in Tiburon, California.

Sebastian: Just tears my heart to see what's happening in the Middle East. I am having difficulty with considering voting for Biden. I'm thinking about staying home.

Susan: I want you to know that I will not vote for Biden.

Sebastian: Just very, very disgusted with the response our government to the injustices in the Middle East.

Susan: I think that he has really let us down, and I feel like he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Kai Wright: How has the Biden administration's policies and politics changed that calculus for you if at all? We want to hear what you are grappling with this election cycle and what you're doing about it. Leave us a voicemail or send us a text message at 844-745-TALK, that's 844-745-8255 or record a voice note and send us an email @notesatwnyc.org. We'll feature some of what you have to say on next week's show.

Notes from America is a production of WNYC Studios. Find us wherever you get your podcast and follow us on Instagram @noteswithkai. This episode was produced by Felice León. Our theme music and sound design is by Jared Paul. Our team also includes Katerina Barton, Regina de Heer, Karen Frillman, Suzanne Gaber, Matthew Mirando, Siona Petros, and Lindsey Foster Thomas. I'm Kai Wright Wright. Thanks for spending time.