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Melissa Harris-Perry: Thanks for sticking with us on The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. Last month workers at Amazon’s Staten Island warehouse voted to form the Amazon Labor Union, or ALU, the company's first-ever union. Almost immediately, the company filed objections with the National Labor Relations Board, or the NLRB. On Monday, the NLRB director who will oversee the case said he's seen evidence that could be grounds for overturning the election. A full hearing is scheduled for May 23rd.

Lauren Kaori Gurley is a senior staff writer for Motherboard at VICE, which she has been reporting on the union organizing efforts at Amazon and around the country. Welcome to The Takeaway, Lauren.

Lauren Kaori Gurley: Hey, Melissa. Thanks so much for having me on.

Melissa Harris-Perry: There was some other big news. We'll get to the NLRB piece in a moment. For quite some time, we've been reporting that a second Staten Island warehouse was coming up for a vote. That vote happened. Workers chose not to unionize with the ALU. You were out yesterday, watching the vote go down. Can you tell us what you saw?

Lauren Kaori Gurley: Sure. I don't think that people are paying close attention to the second warehouse. We’re very surprised about the loss. Amazon received 62% of the vote. The final tally was 618 to 380, so a sort of a reversal of fortune for the union since the last election just a month ago. I would say that there are probably three or four factors that made this a different election and a tougher election to win for the Union.

One is that 80% of the workers according to the union at this warehouse are part-time. At JFK8, the warehouse that won the election a lot of workers are full-time. Part-time workers for them this is a second job. They may be less invested in improving their working conditions. They may even see it even more as a temporary shortstop to earn some extra cash.

The other thing is that organizers, ALU, Amazon Labor Union organizers spend much less time and resources in LDJ5, the warehouse that lost yesterday. They had fewer worker leaders and people embedded in the warehouse, and that's really what gave the other Staten Island warehouse the upper hand last time.

I guess the last thing I would say is that this warehouse that had the ballot count yesterday is newer. It opened in late 2020. It's basically brand new. When you have workers with less time in a worksite, there are fewer grievances that have built up, and generally overall. People are less upset about working conditions than they are at worksites that have existed for a long time.

I think what this means going forward for the labor movement, like a second win really would have helped solidify the position of this union and given a boost to other organizing drives at Amazon around the country, but I think the union is not discouraged. The labor movement is not discouraged. They're going to move forward and look at what the next steps are in terms of winning a contract to JFK8, which we can talk about a little bit next, and organizing in more warehouses around the country.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Lauren, you walked us through this second vote, which was a no vote, but let's go back to the first one, which did establish the ALU, but now Amazon's got a hearing in front of the National Labor Relations Board, or NLRB. Can you help us understand how these hearings typically work?

Lauren Kaori Gurley: Sure. Amazon filed a series of 25 objections to the results of the election at the Staten Island Amazon warehouse that won. They said that the NLRB’s office in Brooklyn, its regional office appeared to support the union drive and that union organizers from ALU had intimidated workers into voting for the union. They filed these series of objections. They've been granted a hearing which will take place on May 23rd.

Actually, because they're accusing the Labor Board here, the regional office in Brooklyn, of violating laboratory conditions, they're instead transferring this case to the regional office in Phoenix, Arizona, where on May 23rd, both parties, Amazon and Amazon Labor Union, will present testimony and evidence to a hearing officer who's then is going to make a decision as to whether they will hold up the election result.

That decision will then be presented to a regional director who will make a final decision, and this process could take weeks really. Like you said, the Phoenix regional office said earlier this week that they found that there is evidence behind Amazon's claims that could be grounds for overturning legal action. I think it's important to know that this is extremely rare for something like this to happen. It would come as a shock to a lot of people.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Simply being granted the hearing, and then the second vote not going in the direction of the union, I'm wondering how this affects-- You started talking with us a bit about this. How this affects the momentum question? You'd reported back in April that union victory at JFK8 was really inspiring. Are Amazon workers around the country feeling less inspired or maybe more determined?

Lauren Kaori Gurley: I haven't told Amazon workers around the country. What I can say is when workers win, like that momentum is infectious, and generally takes off the way it is as some people might know right now at Starbucks stores that are facing a nationwide union drive. It is a setback. On the other hand, like just five years ago, the idea of having a union at Amazon seems like entirely impossible. Now we're having conversations about whether or not they can have a contract, and what are the next warehouses that are going to be organized. I think the conversation has definitely moved significantly forward over the past months. It's at a place where people see certain things as possible, but that they definitely didn't just a few months ago.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Say a few more words about the Starbucks piece.

Lauren Kaori Gurley: The Starbucks union drive, I guess prior to November 2021, not a single Starbucks coffee shop in the United States had unionized. As of I think yesterday, close to 50 stores have unionized, close to 250 stores have filed for union elections. All of this is unheard of, and that's really what experts would describe as this momentum that winning one election creates in a spot that I mean at Starbucks, it's easier, and I would say than Amazon, because to unionize a Starbucks store, get a victory vote requires maybe half of 30 workers to vote yes.

At Amazon, it's like the warehouse is 8,300, so it's hundreds and hundreds of times bigger, and maybe a different demographic of worker at Amazon versus Starbucks, where Starbucks workers are maybe almost self-selecting to be progressive, liberal-minded. Some of them are college-educated. It's just a different demographic. There have been a lot of comparisons made between the two and what's happening.

I think people would say that it's easier to organize Starbucks stores in this way than Amazon.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Lauren Kaori Gurley is a senior staff writer for Motherboard at VICE. Thanks for joining us today, Lauren.

Lauren Kaori Gurley: Thank you so much.

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