Anna Sale: Hey, it’s Anna. I want to tell you that just as we were finishing this episode, we saw the breaking news of the school shooting in Texas…14 children and 1 teacher dead, as I read this. The episode that follows is about the frustrations, pressures, and stresses on teachers….We don’t address the risk of violent death for showing up to work, or for a child showing up to school. 

I don’t have anything original to say…just that we are as horrified and sad as you are.

But we decided to go ahead and share this episode with you, because it says a lot about what teachers have been carrying this year before this latest mass school shooting. 

This is Death, Sex & Money.

The show about the things we think about a lot...

...and need to talk about more.

I'm Anna Sale.

It’s the week leading up to Memorial Day, the holiday that signals it’s just the very beginning of summer… so much possibility about what’s to come: beach days, stoop parties, crickets after dark, and, of course, the end of school.

And we didn’t want to let the final school bell ring on this year without following up on a question we asked teachers all the way back in January, when the Omicron wave was cresting.

 Listener: It feels like a little bit of a trap.

We asked …why did you want to become a teacher? 

Listener: do other jobs get asked this question as much? Like, why are you a teacher? 

Listener: I've wanted to be a teacher since I was a kid. 

Listener: When I was in high school, I had a few teachers that looked past all of the horrible choices that I was making and helped me see like the potential that I had

Listener: instead of playing house I used to ask my friends to play school  

Listener: I'm being asked to share. The soundbite showing how deeply my heart is invested in this work. It just reinforces this idea that like, well, you're just, you're doing it for the fulfillment and not really be in it for the money.

We also asked whether you were thinking about quitting? 

A poll in January by the nation’s largest teachers union found that more than half of teachers said they were leaving education sooner than they’d initially planned because of the pandemic. 

Listener: If I’m thinking about leaving, of course I’ve thought about it, it’s crazy how much I’ve thought about it. 

Listener: there are phenomenal teachers that are walking and not coming back.  People that we need.  I don’t mean to sound patriotic, but our country needs them, 

Listener: And for me, I just feel like all the fun of teaching has gone.. And I don't know if it's because the pandemic has changed me or if it just made me realize that this ain't, it.

You told us how all the battles and divisiveness and nastiness in our country were dropped right into your classroom.

Listener: Being caught in the political tug of war of what we're allowed to teach in our classrooms here in Texas. If I'm allowed to ask my students to wear a mask, if I have to enforce them wearing a mask, um, it just all changes day to day.

Listener: So like last Friday a kid called me a bitch because I asked her to fix her mask three times

Listener: Smaller class sizes and like funding for counselors and all these, like, you're not telling us anything that we don't know. Teachers have known that forever.

Listener: I'm done being a martyr. We are all done being martyrs. I'm not doing anything extra anymore.

We also, though, heard your moments of joy:

Listener: Some of my classes feel very like tight-knit, people are looking out for each other, checking in with each other. 

Listener: Oh, it was like being a celebrity. I would come into school and they would be like, oh my gosh, he cut his hair. He's so tall. And it was so nice to be able to see them and be like, oh my God, you guys are so much shorter in person

So with the school year closing, we wanted to check back in with some of the teachers who wrote and called-in, to hear how things have changed since that dark winter surge… 

Tamika: While I'm not completely certain where I'll end up, I do know that I will not be returning to the classroom after the school year. 

Tamika is 35 years old, and back in the winter, she was clear that this would be her eighth and final year of teaching at a New York City charter school. 

Tamika: I wake up exhausted every day. I have used up all my PTO. They only gave us six days for the year. And the reason why I use up all that PTO is because back in October, I was convinced there was no way in hell. I was actually making it to June of this school year.

A few weeks ago, I called her up to see how she was doing. And while she did stay until the end of the school year, she definitely has not changed her mind.

Anna Sale: You described that overwhelming feeling of exhaustion. Can you tell me a little bit more about what you've noticed when you're not at wprl?

Tamika: Mm-hmm.

Anna Sale: Like, how is your life unfolding? What are your routines like when you're not at work?

Tamika: I-I come straight home and if I can make dinner, that's an- that's an achievement.

Anna Sale: Mm-hmm.

Tamika: Um, if I can wake up early enough and-and fit in a workout, that's an achievement. it causes me not to take the best care of myself. And I've also noticed the toll it's taken on my physical health. I've never been this sick before as a teacher.

Anna Sale: What do you usually eat in the evenings?

Tamika: [sighs] So, I actually use a meal delivery service to make sure that I actually eat healthy meals because if I don't do that, I'll order unhealthy meals. And cooking is normally something I enjoy doing, but in order to make sure that I'm taking care of myself, and it's expensive.

Anna Sale: So it's the kind that you can just heat it up. You're not like putting together olive oil and cooking onions and then putting ingredients. It's not that kind of meal delivery.

Tamika: No, uh, no, but I-I could do that-- I could do that on a weekend. I can chop up something on a weekend. I can slice my avocado and smash it on some toast on a Saturday, but Monday to Friday, whew.

Anna Sale: Did you ever think about leaving classroom teaching pre-COVID, before the pandemic?

Tamika: Um, when I did, it was more of, um, "I'll do that a while from now," kind of thing.

Anna Sale: Mm-hmm.

Tamika: So, um, for the majority of my teaching career, I thought that I would be one of those teachers that was just in the classroom with her gray hair for decades. I genuinely believed that. And the pandemic changed that for me.

Anna Sale: Do any of your students know that you're not gonna be back in their school the next school year?

Tamika: No, I haven't told them yet. I'm dreading that.

Anna Sale: Why?

Tamika: Um, because they asked me to move to 4th Grade with them.

Anna Sale: Mm-hmm.

Tamika: And I am in a unique situation where I've already taught them as 1st graders, so known a lot of them for a really long time and-and known their families. So that's gonna be- that's gonna be hard.

Anna Sale: Mm-hmm. When you think about late June when the school year is over in New York City, and you're gonna know you're not going back to the classroom when school starts in the fall, um, how do you think you'll feel?

Tamika: I think about that a lot.

Tamika: Um, as a teacher, I mean, it's so much of your identity. Like, your whole schedule and your habits are all formed around being a teacher. Like, you know, my closest friends, they know not to even bother inviting me to certain things in the middle of the week because I'm in bed by 8:45, nine o'clock, but I think a big part of it will also just be getting used to having more free time, getting used to also kind of the unknown, because although I know this is my last year, um, I haven't secured another job. I don't know where I'll end up. I'm-I'm not even sure which industry I'll end up in.

Anna Sale: Do you worry about money as you think about changing careers?

Tamika: I worry about money when I think of the possibility of not having a job for a few months, but when I think about getting a new job, I think I'll be okay. I think- I think a lot of the skills that teachers have are highly transferable. I think teachers could do anything. So, I think when I find a job, I could be making significantly more money than I make now-

Anna Sale: Mm.

Tamika: -but I do worry about the time off.

Anna Sale: When you think about, like-- when you, like, picture, maybe it's not knowing the type of work, but picture, like, what it'll be like to, uh, come home from whatever your next job is. Um, like, what you'll be wearing, how you'll be feeling. Like, what do you hope for? What do you hope is really different?

Tamika: Um, when I think about what I'd wear, probably-probably not all the teacher dresses. I think my wardrobe is going to change drastically.

[laughter]

Tamika: Um, wow. I might actually take some fashion risks. I don't know now.

Anna Sale: [chuckles] You could show some cleavage. You could go big. [chuckles]

Tamika: I-I really could.

[laughter]

Tamika: So that would be exciting. That would actually be really fun. I wouldn't wear backpacks every day, lugging my stuff around.

[laughter]

Tamika: It'll do wonders for my posture. It'll be great. Yeah.

[music]

Anna Sale: Hi, Lillian.

Lillian: Hi, Anna.

Anna Sale: Hey, it's nice to hear your voice.

Lillian: It's good to hear you too.

Anna Sale: Thank you for making time. Um, where are you right now?

Lillian: Uh, I'm sitting in my car in the parking lot of my school.

Anna Sale: Oh, are you on, like, a period off?

Lillian: Yes.

I first talked to Lillian on the show back in 2020, in an episode about Missing Touch, during the first months of the pandemic. Back then she was on maternity leave at home with her infant son whom she's raising on her own. Her son is now two and a half, and Lillian's been back at work at a high school in Chicago. When she reached out in January, she said she'd been crying lately at work, which was new. It's been hard, and she's also been trying to get pregnant again.

Lillian: You know, I'm 39, so if-if I'm gonna do it, I gotta do it.

Lillian's been a teacher in Chicago public schools for almost 20 years. That's the district where back in January, the teacher union voted to go back to remote learning in a dispute over COVID testing and safety during Omicron. The city wanted them to stay in-person. Classes ended up being canceled for five days while they negotiated. The mayor called this an illegal walkout and docked teachers' pay. Lillian's a union delegate at her school. And months later, her feelings around that time are still raw.

Lillian: There was just such a feeling of disregard for us, for our li-- for our lives, for our students and their families and their lives. And I think this is maybe what lots of essential workers or so-called essential workers have felt over the past few years, right? This idea that, oh, you're gonna say you're essential and we're gonna say you're valued, but we have no qualms about putting your life on the line for somebody else's benefit. I mean, you know, this is teacher appreciation weekend. We got a video from the mayor talking about how she appreciates teachers and it just feels so-- like-like it's just wrong. 

Anna Sale: Did you consider, you know, I mean, did you have a moment where you thought maybe this isn't the place I wanna teach. Maybe I don't wanna teach.

Lillian: No, um, interestingly, uh, this is not a year that I felt that, and there have been other years where I've considered, you know, in the middle of February and winter in Chicago, like, maybe I need a different career, but-but no, actually.  Um, I feel very strongly committed to-to my work. I-I love teaching. Um, and it didn't- it didn't make me wanna teach any less. I don't know that I'd be valued as a worker more anywhere else, to be quite honest.

Anna Sale: Have you cried at work since January?

Lillian: Um, I-- once, but in a very different situation. I had a student just a few days ago who, um, shared with me that she was raped recently. And, um, it was, like, the most helpless I've-- think I've ever felt, um, as a teacher and then to be a, you know, an adult woman and have to tell her, you know, she was talking about how she was wanting to get justice and to have to say, you know, you're very unlikely to get justice, um, felt really awful.

Anna Sale: I'm glad she had you to tell.

Lillian: Yeah, me too. Uh, just heartbreaking.

[music]

Anna Sale: You know, the last time we talked, you were talking about, you know, the real toll of isolation as a single mom of a baby during the early pandemic. Um, a lot has happened since then in your life. Um, when you made that decision to-to try to become a parent again in the summer, like, what-what has helped you feel like you could take that on?

Lillian: Right now? Like, overall? Like, maybe this is crazy, but I do feel like life is good, right? Like, it's stressful, but I don't equate stress with being terrible or bad, you know. Um, I have- I have been trying to conceive and, um, having a hard time getting pregnant and that's been hard. Um, the process of coming to terms with the fact that that might not happen, um, was rough, but you know, my son is really-- he brings me so much joy. I am having the most fun as a parent because that's where my happiness and my joy is in life, is as a parent and being with my kid. Um, I think that's what helped me keep going.

Coming up, a young first-time teacher who went into the profession with low expectations, and that was before the pandemic.

Aaron: Being let down requires you to have trust in the system to begin with. And I felt like my expectations were always on the ground level. I was like, "Let's just survive."

We have a suspicion that Tameka is not the only one among us who has been thinking about fashion and their personal style… 

Many of us are re-emerging from remote work and socializing with different relationships to our bodies, and perhaps a different sense of self. Perhaps you’ve retired “hard pants” from your wardrobe, or your gender expression has changed what clothes feel good, or maybe your quarantine haircut has grown into something you love.

We want to know about the personal style transformations you’re undergoing. What risks are you taking that you wouldn’t have tried before? What changes feel good? What fashion experiments didn’t work? Record a short voice memo for us chronicling your personal style transformation, and send it to us at deathsexmoney@wnyc.org.

We are still accepting and going through your stories of estrangement–you have sent in so many–but as we head into this new season, we also wanted to celebrate the new ways you’re feeling HOT. 

And definitely feel free to send along pics too – tag us on Instagram or email them to us at deathsexmoney@wnyc.org. 

On our next episode, I talk with actor and playwright Harvey Fierstein about coming of age in New York in the 70s, managing his finances, with his brother, and noticing one consistent pattern in his life:

Harvey Fierstein: I really suck at relationships, I, I don’t take lovers I take prisoners.  I just go right in there and I got right into my fantasy and I’m like clearing drawers on the second date.

This is Death, Sex & Money from WNYC. I'm Anna Sale.

School districts across the US have dealt with the pandemic differently. Some adjusted to in-person classes long ago, but for those of you who taught in schools where students were remote for a lot of the school year before this one, reentry has been tough.

Listener: You know, maybe I can bring them to two and a half years behind, and so they still leave not ready for the next grade level 

Listener: Way more behavior issues than I’ve seen before, you know talking over me, making noises…

Listener: we've had incidences with, young people doing things that they don't think we can see because they used to be on zoom. They have no sense of where their bodies are, what their bodies are doing, because they think they can only see us from, you know, the chest on up

Listener:  how are these students supposed to understand and value community when they have been in majority isolation for the past few years? 

But we also heard that in spite of the upheaval, some of you found your own coping mechanisms and workarounds.

Listener: So I kind of made the pivot this year to do more thinking and talking with my students rather than the traditional academic work.

Listener: I no longer am so focused on did they read the book to the point where they know the characters and the minute details? As long as I can keep them thinking with material or just with life, I think we're-we're gonna be okay.

Listener: I'd be nervous like a-a big bag of nervous emotions too if I were them. And so, like, as their teacher, I-- every day I'm gonna do everything I can to muster the courage to show up there every day for them so they don't have to face that challenge alone.

Another teacher we heard from is Aaron, which is not his real name. He's in his 20s and moved to New York City right out of college to join Teach For America in the summer of 2020. His whole first year in the classroom teaching 5th Graders for a charter school in the Bronx actually was not in the classroom.

Aaron: I taught my entire first year teaching from my apartment. We were remote the entire year and I was always so insecure about my teaching. You know, "Am I doing it right?" Um, there weren't teachers really telling me what to do or giving me pointers on the daily. 

Anna Sale: So your first day of school when you showed up in an actual school building with actual students in front of you, uh, how'd you feel?

Aaron: Oh, I felt horrified. [chuckles] Um, not-- okay. I need to watch my words with that. It wasn't, like, horrified, but it was like, I-I mean, I was shitting my pants. There was no other way to put it. Um, it wa-- it's scary because all of a sudden you're like, "Oh my gosh, it's so real. There are all these kids and they- and they smell weird and they're so loud and they're so mean to each other." It was- it was a culture shock, but then at the same time, you know, one of the things that was the hardest about being on Zoom is that you would have to put all this energy into working in-- it-it's like talking to an entire group of students, it takes so much energy from you, but you don't get any of it back. You-- it's just a suck, it's an energy suck.

Anna Sale: Mm. Uh, I'm curious if you-- like, horrifying that idea of, like, um, sort of missing the comforts of remote teaching, you know, that is not something, um, I heard a lot hearing from teachers in the press about what it was like remote teaching. It didn't seem like there was anything about it that they- that they liked. Um-

Aaron: Yeah.

Anna Sale: -and for you, there was something, uh, safe about it initially.

Aaron: Ooh, I like that word to describe it, safe. It-it-it did feel safe. And even now I'm still like-- I'm training my body to not detach. I get-- because when you're remote, it is so easy, if you're not actively doing something or actively talking, to be distracted and kind of space out, go on my phone, do whatever. It-- you can't do that in school.

And I think that even now, just in general, you know, my personal life, everything, I have a tendency now to detach more than I did before or want to run away from something. And that's-that's something that I feel like I miss a lot from remote teaching, but I also feel bad for missing it because teachers aren't supposed to detach. They're supposed to have the stamina to stay there for the entire period. They're supposed to be, you know, perfect superheroes the whole time. Um, and I-I-I wanna relearn how to do that.

Anna Sale: Is your school where you teach, do you share a cultural background with most of the students you're teaching?

Aaron: No, not really.

Anna Sale: Has that been hard to figure out?

Aaron: Yes and no. Um, you know, I grew up at, like, in a Latino family. So, you know, most of my students, they're from Latino countries, they speak Spanish, um, but being up here and being, like, from Texas, I've very much made that my brand. I am also, like, a zoomer, in their generation, so I can still understand the references that they make. Like, I know SpongeBob references. Sometimes they'll quote SpongeBob and like, an older teacher, even one that's like 10 years older than me, will have no idea what they're talking about, but I'll be able to catch it.

Anna Sale: Um, what did your parents do for work when you were growing up?

Aaron: My dad is a prosecutor in San Antonio, um, my mom was a homemaker, but she eventually actually started working at an elementary school when I was in high school.

Anna Sale: Oh, that's interesting.

Aaron: Yeah.

Anna Sale: Do you feel like, from your conversations with your mother, that she wishes for you a long career in education or that she hopes it's not long?

Aaron: Um, she wants me to get back to Texas as soon as I possibly can.

Anna Sale: Mm-hmm.

Aaron: And I kind of have to explain to her that I could not be a teacher in-- like, being openly gay, you know, there's-- now there's a few states where I'm like, "Ugh, I don't- I don't feel comfortable teaching in Florida, I don't feel comfortable teaching in Texas. Um, that's not gonna happen." So I think that she's glad that I'm a teacher and she's very proud of me that I'm a teacher. She just wishes that I was a teacher closer to her, you know?

Anna Sale: Yeah. What are your plans for the summer when school's over?

Aaron: Um, I-- a lot of like-- I mean, this sounds embarrassing, a lot of gay clubbing. Um, June is pride month and you know, the last week of pride month coincides with the last week of school. Um, and last year, that meant that I had the best five days of my life just like-- Um, yeah, I mean, that's gonna be a great way to end out, like, my first [laughs] in-person school year, um, being completely off the rails.

Anna Sale: [laughs] Well, enjoy yourself.

I caught up with the last teacher I spoke with while she was in her middle school library…Anpo Kuwa Win teaches on the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming, and when I called her, she was browsing the internet for a new classroom rug… 

Anpo: I'm trying to find something that looks native, but not cheesy native. I don’t know how to explain it.  There is such a thing. 

Anna: there is such, is it on Amazon though? 

Anpo: I'm not sure.

Anna Sale: Mm.

Anpo's district is rural with students from a variety of tribal backgrounds. They were also remote for most of the school year before this one. And Anpo noticed when they got back in person, the social aspect of middle school felt especially hard.

Anpo Kuwa Win: One day, um, a-a sixth grade girl came in and she was just sobbing. She was upset. Um, there was a lot of, you know, she didn't feel like she belonged, she didn't wanna really be here. Um, she didn't really know who her friends were, she couldn't-- the friends that she had, they had all changed. Every-- across the board, all of the friendships had changed. And so, their lack of social interaction with each other had created, like, almost like they had grown apart and they did not know how to start making friends again. And within about maybe 25 more minutes, two students brought in another student who was upset and crying, and she was feeling almost the same way. I mean, it was like watching, literally watching, um, an-an episode of M*A*S*H where they bring in all these wounded people-

Anpo Kuwa Win: -sad you're doing all this, um, triage on them, trying to figure out what's going on. Why are you upset? Why are you sobbing uncontrollably? It was like almost a-a traumatic experience-

Anna Sale: Mm-hmm.

Anpo Kuwa Win: -that I-I watched and I- and I thought to myself, this is-- this is hard. So, um, in my family, and I know in many other native families, you and your family, your parents, or your parents and your-your children, all go to older relatives' homes and they sit and they visit, and they talk, they share stories, they tell, um, they talk about history, they talk about relationships. And it's a way of tying-tying you together, and that relationship piece for us as native people, is so valuable and important. It's-it's the heart of what it is to be native.

And I remember going to my father's aunt's home and sitting, and we were all given cups of tea. And it was like the sweetest tea I ever drank in my life. That you didn't talk, you listened. And you glean so much knowledge from those conversations, but it's also where you fit in, in this world, where you belong. And that sense of belonging, I think, is-- was just lost in the last two years. And so I thought, "Well, we'll just-- we're going to have tea time-

Anna Sale: Oh.

Anpo Kuwa Win: -and we're just going to sit and visit."

Anna Sale: In your library?

Anpo Kuwa Win: In my library. So I think I had the very first one we had, I think I had about nine kids and they were like, "This was fun-

Anna Sale: Oh.

Anpo Kuwa Win: -can we do it again?" And I said, "Sure, why not?" So-so then, I-I went and bought some different tea because most of our students have never had flavored hot tea. So then the next week I said, "Okay, well, we're going to have tea again and it'll be on Thursday." And when we were sitting there, one of the 8th Grade girls, um, she's-she was talking to a 6th Grade girl, somebody she doesn't know. And-and they got to visiting. They were just kinda like, you know, "Hey, you know, how are you?" And, "I'm-I'm okay." And, um, when they walked out, they were friends.

Anna Sale: Mm.

Anpo Kuwa Win: And I think that-that caught me.

Anna Sale: Mm.

Anpo Kuwa Win: Um, you know, just her putting her hand on this little 6th-grader's, you know, shoulder and said, "Hey, I'll-I'll see you when we have tea again."

Anna Sale: Hmm.

Anpo Kuwa Win: And, um, that was it.

That was Anpo Kua Win in Wyoming. I first met her when I was working on my book Let’s Talk About Hard Things. You can get to know more about her there…and you really, really should. Tea time continues to be really popular — it’s grown to 28 students a week. 

Anpo: I am now surrounded by tea cups and tea pots. Yeah.

And in our show notes, we have a link to the first episode where we heard from Lillian while she was quarantining. It’s called Skin Hunger, part 1. 

Thank you to all of the teachers who shared your stories with us over the last few months…and for all you educators listening, we hope you have a relaxing summer - you deserve it. 

Death, Sex & Money is a listener supported production of WNYC Studios in New York. This episode was produced by Zoe Azulay and Afi Yellow-Duke. The rest of our team includes Julia Furlan, Emily Botein, and Andrew Dunn. Special thanks to Gabriela Santana for her help with this episode.

The Reverend John DeLore and Steve Lewis wrote our theme music.

I'm on Instagram @annasalepics, that’s P-I-C-S, and the show is @deathsexmoney on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. 

Thank you to Elena Barcia in Los Angeles, California, who is a sustaining member of Death, Sex & Money. Join Elena and support what we do here, by going to deathsexmoney.org/donate.

Anna Sale: How are you feeling about having to teach?

Anpo: I’ll be honest, they're going to have to cart me out of here. [laughs] I love my kids. 

I’m Anna Sale and this is Death, Sex & Money from WNYC. 

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