Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I am really grateful you're here. On today's show in our What the Hack series, we'll speak with psychologist and Brown University professor, Jacqueline Nesi, about how to develop a healthier relationship with your phone, and we want to hear your hacks on managing your device.

We'll also learn about a new exhibition at the Museum of Modern Art that looks at how great design can change our behavior and culture. Plus, think of your best only in New York story and then get ready to call in with it. WNYC and The Moth storytelling show are collaborating on a special event in March, and this is your chance to audition for it. That's the plan. Let's get this started with an album about Puerto Rico that's both a love letter to the island and a call to action.

[MUSIC - Bad Bunny: NUEVAYoL]

Alison Stewart: This month, Latin trap sensation Bad Bunny released what he calls his most Puerto Rican album ever. It's titled DeBÍ TiRAR MáS FOToS. In English, it means I should have taken more photos. The global superstar reflects on his roots, expresses pride, and discusses the contemporary issues of the island. His songs touch on the mass exodus of Puerto Ricans to the mainland USA and the gentrification of the island's neighborhoods. He shared a short film ahead of the album's release featuring influential Puerto Rican filmmaker Jacobo La Morales reflecting on his life. A Rolling Stone review gave the album five stars, stating Bad Bunny brings listeners along for his triumphant homecoming with 17 songs that traverse Puerto Rico's rich kaleidoscope of genres. To discuss the significance of the album, we're joined by NPR's Culture Desk reporter and producer, Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Nice to meet you, Isabella.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: Also, we have with us University of Wisconsin–Madison assistant professor of Latin and Caribbean history, Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo, who collaborated on the album and who appeared on All Of It last year to talk about his book titled Puerto Rico: A National History. Jorell, welcome back to All Of It.

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here in community with all of you.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, have you listened to the Bad Bunny album? Which song on the album is your favorite? What are your thoughts on its message? Do you feel it's important for Puerto Rican artists like Bad Bunny to speak up about what's going on on the island? Why or why not? Give us a call or text us. The number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can hit us up on social media, @allofitwnyc. We are talking Bad Bunny's album. This is his sixth album, right?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: That's correct.

Alison Stewart: Where is he in terms of his life as an artist?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: At this point, I think Bad Bunny has really transformed from a breakout trap reggaeton star on the island in the Latin music world to becoming a full-fledged pop star, a full-fledged global superstar. I think two albums ago, Un Verano Sin Ti was the really big Caribbean that took his career to a whole new level. The fact that he's now consciously choosing to go back and really reground himself in Puerto Rico after a stint in LA as the big Puerto Rican rapper, it says a lot about where he is on a personal level and I think on a political level.

Alison Stewart: What was unique about the rollout of this album?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Bad Bunny loves to do surprise announcements. He'll drop little Easter eggs here and there, coordinates, letting people know the album is coming. It's kind of like an if you know, you know. If you're plugged in, you pick up on those hints. I think this was an album where he posted this image of the two plastic chairs, which maybe for a lot of listeners or a lot of fans didn't make sense, but it's another if you know, you know. If you are from the global south, honestly, you're familiar with that image and the kind of bonding that it represents. Likewise, on the back of the-- the track list had the colors of the Puerto Rican independence flag. I think he started hinting at a lot of these themes as he announced the project.

Alison Stewart: Jorell, each song on the album was released with a title card on YouTube and they offer history lessons about Puerto Rico. You helped develop these cards. For example, one talks about the bombing of El Viejo. How did you become involved with the process?

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: I was contacted by the Bad Bunny team on December 24th of last year. They explained what Benito wanted in the record, which I think it's not only a musical production, it's also a cultural project. Benito wanted to highlight Puerto Rico's history. What he told me was that he wanted these histories to be known by people in the projects, people in the working class, barriadas. He thought that people in Puerto Rico don't know their history because of the failed infrastructure and public education system. He just wanted to use his platform to amplify that history of Puerto Rico.

Alison Stewart: How did you start to decide what would be on the cards? How did you decide what they would look like? They're very simple, actually.

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: Yes. I did not have a clue of what they would look like at the end. They asked me to develop 17 different themes in Puerto Rican history, so I gave them 17 topics. Benito wanted-- He was very adamant that he wanted certain things, like the history of surveillance in Puerto Rico, the history of US Colonialism. He also wanted one of them to be about the history of bomba plena all the way to reggaeton, and the history of extinct animals or animals in danger of extinction, including El sapo concho, which is the icon of the record. I had a bit of a leeway in what to include, but Benito was also very adamant in the things that he wanted to be included in the project.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a call. This is Emily in Inglewood. Hi, Emily. Thanks so much for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Emily: Hi. I'm so excited to be on the air. I was saying that I have not always been necessarily a big fan of Bad Bunny, maybe a song or two, but I heard this record in full, and I am just so proud of what he's produced. The music is just beautiful. I love that he's incorporated traditional Puerto Rican sounds and traditional Puerto Rican instruments, and the messaging is just so heartfelt. I was saying that this is an album that my daughter, who's 12 years old, loves, my mom, who's in her 70s, loves, and we're just so excited about it. We're playing it all the time. I love bomba plena. The fact that he threw that into it and just all those sounds just makes me literally tear up when I hear some of those songs.

Alison Stewart: Emily, thank you so much for calling. If you'd like to join the conversation, we'd love to have you. Are you a fan of Bad Buddy? Are you Puerto Rican? Have you listened to the album? What song on the album is your favorite? What are your thoughts on its message? Our phone lines are 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in or you can text to us at that number, or you can hit us up on social media, @allofitwnyc. We are discussing Bad Bunny's latest album, DeBÍ TiRAR MáS FOToS, with Isabella Gomez Sarmiento and Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo. I just want to get your response to what Emily said.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: I think it's interesting. My mom has always disliked Bad Bunny. She's found his music very vulgar, that traditional, very sexual reggaeton. This was the first time where she texted me and she was like, "Okay, I get it."

Alison Stewart: It's so funny. My feed on YouTube is full of folks who are like, "I get it." All these older folks who are like, "Yes, this is for me." It's his first truly cross-generational album in that way, I think. Jorell, Bad Bunny's released three singles ahead of the album's release. One was PIToRRO DE COCO. Can you tell us what that means?

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: PIToRRO DE COCO is basically our version of moonshine. It's a rum that is made. It's illegal because it cannot be taxed. It's also very iconic in the countryside. In Puerto Rico, we have it. It's also a very Christmas drink. I think that if Un Verano Sin Ti was his summer record, this is his Christmas record where we're going to be celebrating Puerto Rican Christmas throughout the year. Pitorro is a very iconic drink during the Christmas time era in Puerto Rico.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's take a listen.

[MUSIC - Bad Bunny: PIToRRO DE COCO]

Alison Stewart: Isabella, he released this album in early January 2025. What's the significance of the timing of the album?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: It's right after elections in Puerto Rico. I think he's also trying to call to action. It was the same day as Kings Day. Kings Day was the 6th.

Alison Stewart: That's when we laugh so hard when he dressed like a kid.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: I think it is a holiday album in that sense. I think he's really looking forward at the future of Puerto Rico grounded in the celebration of the holiday season. Like you said, it's a call to action to some of the issues the island is facing and will continue to face in the near future.

Alison Stewart: This is a text. "This album, for me, is a reminder that the island my ancestors came from is not a floating island of garbage, that we are not disposable workforce, that we are not victims. This is a reminder that we are people rich in culture, history, and pride. It's truly a love letter not only for the island but for the beautiful people of Puerto Rico, both on and off the island." That's a really telling statement, Jorell. This is definitely happening after, oh, gosh, President Trump's meeting, let's say, at Madison Square Garden, where Puerto Rico was the subject of a joke. Was this an important part for Bad Bunny?

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: Absolutely. As Isabella was mentioning, this comes right after the Puerto Rican elections, which were, I think, the most important generations in my lifetime, where for the first time, a pro-independence party get to the second place in the ballot box. Actually, Bad Bunny rallied for the Alianza, which was a coalition between the pro-independence party and a Citizens Movement party, which was a progressive party. He was very involved in Puerto Rican politics.

He actually, I think, referenced the island of garbage in his media. He's very attuned to Puerto Rican reality and Puerto Rican politics. We also need to remember that although this record is highly political, this is not the first time we've seen Bunny use his platform to talk about femicide, to talk about violence against trans people. More recently in El Apagón, he had a full-fledged documentary in the video with Bianca Graulau, where he talked about displacement and gentrification. This is not the first time that he's taking a political position, but I think that now it's more acute in this record. It's a celebration, but also it's a warning, it's a call to action. It's a very complex record, politically speaking.

Alison Stewart: Isabella, in the New York Times podcast, Bad Bunny said there's a lot of political lines that you can't tell are political. What do you think about that?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: I think this is an album where he very masterfully writes lyrics that could be interpreted as being about personal heartbreak or as being about a personal relationship, but they leverage larger accusations against the US treatment of Puerto Rico, against the treatment of outside investors on the island. I think there's a lot of if you know, you know. Again, this is kind of a signature thing for Bad Bunny where if you take the point of view of a Puerto Rican person, it's a lot more than a breakup or a one-on-one conflict.

Alison Stewart: Let's take another call. Let's talk to Carlos in Manhattan. Hi, Carlos, you're on the air.

Carlos: Hi, Alison. Thanks for taking my call.

Alison Stewart: Sure. What do you want to tell us?

Carlos: I'm 40 years old. I was born and raised in Puerto Rico in the '90s. I was in high school there. My generation is very much in a crossroads politically. My mother, when she was at the University of Puerto Rico, a student in the '70s, she was very much a radical independence person, who ended up getting an FBI file made on her that she was actually able to see when she was older for her civil disobedience activities. Me, myself, you can probably tell I don't have an accent. That's because I learned English and Spanish at the same time. My mother went to the States to get a PhD and took me along with her, and then went back to Puerto Rico in the late '90s, where I went to high school.

Reggaeton, rock and roll, you were at each other's throats in the '90s. You were either a caco or you were a rockero, or you were a Salcedo, or you were a Merenguero. It was the never the twain shall meet. One of the things that makes Bad Bunny very special is that he combines all these genres and says Puerto Rico is all of these things. Puerto Rico is more than salsa, bomba, plena. It's everything. It's the American influence. That the identity can be lost, but still can embrace culture from America, sounds from America, synthesizers.

This album has so many synths, but also cuatro, which is the national instrument of Puerto Rico, a guitar with multiple strings. It's just amazing. I just never heard anything like this. It's hard to talk about-

Alison Stewart: Yes, I can hear that.

Carlos: -because we never get to talk about this. Reggaeton has always had this reputation of being party music, being music for people who want to get it on and get messed up and go out and party. Other artists have tried to bridge that gap, but Bad Bunny has done it with such a plum that I've never heard anything like it before. It's amazing. It's just amazing.

Alison Stewart: Well put. Thank you so much for calling in. I want to get to some of those genres that he's put together. Let's listen to the album's lead track, DeBÍ TiRAR MáS FOToS, and then we can talk about it on the other side. This is Bad Bunny.

[MUSIC - Bad Bunny: DeBÍ TiRAR MáS FOToS]

Alison Stewart: You can hear the drums playing in the back of that title track. What other musical styles and traditions does he use on this album that you wouldn't normally hear on a Latin trap album?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: There's a lot more folkloric influence on this album than we've heard before. There's the panderetas, which are like the handheld percussion instruments. There's the güiro, the cuatro. There's a lot of música jíbara influences which is like campesino countryside music from the mid-20th century. He's really incorporating these very, very traditional sounds. In that song, we hear a Very stripped-back production. He uses that chorus, which is automatically so nostalgic, like the call and response with the group. It really, I think, gets a very emotional point across without doing too much with the production.

Alison Stewart: Jorell, I'm going to play the song LO QUE LE PASÓ A HAWAii, What Happened to Hawaii? It's a really powerful song. Tell us what it's about.

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: LO QUE LE PASÓ A HAWAii, he's trying to make an analogy of the realities that Hawaii went through after 1898 until it was incorporated as a state of the Union in which Hawaii went over a process of Americanization, displacement of their peoples. It's a warning call about what's happening in Puerto Rico right now. Actually, the short film that he released two days prior to the record touched upon the topic of displacement, about losing our culture. I think that in LO QUE LE PASÓ A HAWAii, he's made taking that analogy.

There's a shared history between Puerto Rico and Hawaii historically because Puerto Rico was occupied by the United States on July 25th, 1898, and it's on that same year that the United States enters into Hawaii. He's thinking about, what is the future of Puerto Rico, how it will look like if this displacement, gentrification, and loss of culture happens. I think that the song is a warning call to Puerto Ricans to think about other examples of where these examples of displacement, Americanization, have happened in the past.

Alison Stewart: Listen to LO QUE LE PASÓ A HAWAii. This is Bad Bunny.

[MUSIC - Bad Bunny: LO QUE LE PASÓ A HAWAii]

Alison Stewart: We're discussing Bad Bunny's DeBÍ TiRAR MáS FOToS, his latest album. Isabella Gomez Sarmiento is from NPR and Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo is a UW-Madison assistant professor for Latin American and Caribbean history. They are walking us through this album, and we are taking your calls as well. This is a really good Instagram message. It says, "It is the most important album at this time." What do you think they mean by at this time?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: I think it speaks to not only what's happening in Puerto Rico, but what we're seeing happen in a lot of places in the world. I think it really struck a chord with young people, and particularly within the Latino diaspora, about how do you retain your culture, how do you preserve your roots and preserve your traditions while also moving them forward. I think that's something that young people everywhere can identify with. Like I said earlier, I think it's really struck a chord across generations for where we are in a rapidly globalizing culture.

Alison Stewart: Jorell, in the New York Times podcast interview, he was asked if he worried that people won't understand his music because it's in Spanish. Bad Bunny explained, while there are some people who don't speak Spanish or Latinos who don't understand Puerto Rican slang or miss some of the nuances, that he doesn't really care. It was said in a light way, but he doesn't really care. Why is that answer significant?

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: Yes, he does not. One of his signatures or brand is that he does whatever he wants. That's one of the names of his records, Yo Hago Lo Que Me Da La Gana. Particularly, I think that he wrote this record for Puerto Ricans, and he wrote it and recorded it in Puerto Rico. It's a love letter to Puerto Ricans. I think it's also an archive or a snapshot of the political moment that we're living right now in Puerto Rico, where we have rapid displacement, gentrification, colonial violence, et cetera, et cetera. He captures all of that.

As Isabella was saying, I think it struck a chord with a lot of people. I think that the philosopher Edward Said was right when he argued that exile was the common experience throughout the 20th century, and I think that we see that exacerbated in the early 21st century. I've seen a lot of people in social media using this song to think about their displacement in different countries, like Venezuela, Cuba, Colombia, different parts of Latin America. It really struck a chord with young people everywhere and displaced folks, because this is not only happening in Puerto Rico but all throughout the world. Although it is a record written and for Puerto Ricans, I think that it struck a chord with people elsewhere.

Alison Stewart: What message, Isabella, do you think that this album can send to young people?

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: I think Bad Bunny is very intentionally letting young people know that it's important to be informed, but it's also important to stand your ground and that there's hope. I think even though so much of the album is lamenting what has happened to Puerto Rico and what's happened to Hawaii and what's happened to other colonial territories, it's a message of resistance and of resilience, of saying if we reclaim what's ours, if we stand proudly, we're going to be okay, but we have to stick together, which I think, as Jorell was saying, is why it has resonated with so many people, not just on the island and off the island, but really around the world outside of the Puerto Rican diaspora. I think that's a message that a lot of people can relate to and can hold onto right now.

Alison Stewart: Jorell, do you have final thoughts?

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: No, I absolutely agree. I think that this not only is a love letter, it's a warning call. It is a record that it's documenting what's happening in Puerto Rico at the moment. I think that he also wants to show that Puerto Ricans are not docile, that it's not a passive culture. He's also celebrating our sounds, our history, our culture in a massive way. I think it's a snapshot of the present moment we're living in right now.

Alison Stewart: We've been talking about Bad Bunny's latest album, DeBÍ TiRAR MáS FOToS, with NPR's Culture Desk reporter and producer Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Thank you for being with us.

Isabella Gomez Sarmiento: Thank you so much.

Alison Stewart: And University of Wisconsin-Madison assistant professor of Latin and Caribbean history, Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo. Thank you, Jorell.

Dr. Jorell Meléndez-Badillo: Thank you so much for having me.