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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Brooklyn State Senator Zellnor Myrie is making moves to run against Mayor Adams in the Democratic mayoral primary next June. Myrie told The New York Times out today that the mayor had shown "a failure of competence" and did not have a "full grasp of the nuts and bolts of how city government should work." Myrie also criticized the mayor's cuts to libraries, parks, and schools. State Senator Myrie is the second person to take a step toward primary and Mayor Adams back in January.

Scott Stringer, the former city comptroller, formed his own exploratory committee. Both are still exploring, which is the first step. It's not an official declaration that they're running. We'll talk about that now and the mayor's Tuesday news conference, including his thoughts on Columbia's graduation announcement, whether he would call the situation in Gaza a genocide, a reporter asked him that question, and more, as we do every Wednesday with Liz Kim, WNYC and Gothamist reporter covering the mayor. Hi, Liz.

Elizabeth Kim: Hi, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start with this news of Brooklyn State Senator Zellnor Myrie's announcement. He's opening an exploratory committee starting today. Remind us, what does that mean?

Elizabeth Kim: This is basically the first step to announcing a formal run, and it's about testing the waters. What that essentially means is trying to see if he can cull together enough money to mount a run. In this case, he would have to mount considerable money because Adams has a large war chest already as the incumbent.

Brian Lehrer: Now, state Senator Myrie was part of the more progressive generation of leaders who dominated incumbents in state legislature elections back in 2018. Interestingly, his senate district is the same one that Mayor Adams once represented when he was in the state Senate. That's New York Senate District 20 for those of you keeping score. Though he talked about competence yesterday, is this basically going to be a political challenge from the left?

Elizabeth Kim: I spoke to the senator this morning, and I recalled that back in 2021, I did a story that was about, what is a progressive these days? At the time, Eric Adams was calling himself a progressive. Andrew Cuomo called himself a progressive. I put the question at the time to Senator Myrie, and he described himself as an on-the-street progressive, which is basically his way of saying that he is progressive, but he wanted to emphasize the fact that it's connected to what his constituents care about.

This morning, when I talked to him, that was the first thing I brought that up, and he emphasized to me that he doesn't think these kinds of political labels are important in this moment. He told me that he feels from talking to New Yorkers that what they care about are clean streets, safe subways, good schools, and opportunities. He told me that's not a conservative, progressive, or moderate thing. It's a who can deliver and make the city affordable and livable thing. I think just from that, you have a sense of how he's going to campaign.

Brian Lehrer: Did you have a chance to get with him too, for example, how he would keep the subway safe because there's a lot of pushback from the left on the deployment of a lot of police officers and new bag checks and stuff like that?

Elizabeth Kim: I did not, Brian. I think that that would be a very good question to push him on if he, in fact, does make this formal, is how would he approach public safety, specifically policing. We've already seen Mayor Adams' approach, which is a very law and order, some would say a more aggressive approach to policing. How would Senator Myrie address this moment?

What he did say was that he brought out, I think which would be it's a safe proposal and I think it would be broadly popular, is he would like to put forward a plan for universal after-school programs, which I think is interesting because universal pre-K was very popular. There's no reason to believe why universal after-school wouldn't be popular. Here in New York City, we do have at certain grade levels, higher grade levels, I believe from middle school on, but I think it's also depending on the district, there are free after-school programs, but it is not universal.

Brian Lehrer: That was a Mayor de Blasio promise way back in 2013 in conjunction with the universal pre-K that there was going to be free universal after-school for middle school in New York City. It was hard enough to implement pre-K and then 3-K. They never really got to universal middle school, so interesting that with the popularity of 3-K and pre-K that that's where Myrie might try to hang his hat in part if he does follow through and run next year. Just briefly, where does Scott Stringer, the former New York City comptroller, fit into all of this? He announced an exploratory committee back in January.

Elizabeth Kim: That's right. He was the first to announce, and as we know, he was one of the candidates who ran in 2021 against Adams. He was considered a strong candidate until his campaign imploded after a former intern, who had worked with him many, many years ago, accused him of sexual assault and harassment. Basically, it's interesting. He's a candidate who at this point, he's speaking to donors, he's obviously fundraising, and he also is a candidate who has nothing to lose. He's not currently in politics, and he's seeking to mount a comeback.

Early on, by establishing himself as a candidate, it gave him this lane in which he could start putting out statements criticizing Mayor Adams. I think that that for him was part of his calculus in announcing so early. Now that Senator Myrie joins the field, it's going to be even more interesting because we're going to see then two candidates putting out counterpoint statements to what the mayor is doing.

Brian Lehrer: Elizabeth Kim with us, if you're just joining us, our lead Eric Adams reporter here at WNYC and our local news website Gothamist. All this Myrie news came out after the mayor's weekly Tuesday news conference, so let's go to the news conference. Amid ongoing protests, as most of you know, Columbia University has announced that it's going to cancel its main graduation ceremony. Instead, it's going to hold what it calls smaller-scale school-based graduations.

The mayor tried to put his thumb on the scale, you might say, regarding that yesterday at the news conference. Let's take a listen to 30 seconds of what he had to say.

Mayor Eric Adams: Listen, I felt that we should go through. We are able to have any event in this city without distractions, but again, it's up to the school to make that determination. Graduation is so important, and remember who these children are. These are the COVID graduation. We took away their graduation during COVID. Now, we're taking away their graduation this year during protests.

Brian Lehrer: The mayor yesterday. Liz, I know you're a City Hall reporter, not a Columbia University reporter. I was a little surprised by the announcement that they were canceling the main graduation because no matter what people think of it, the police had already come and cleared the encampment. Presumably, the lawn there at the main campus at 116th Street was available, or they could have used the alternative space that they're now going to use for the smaller graduations uptown.

For the full graduation, it's big enough there at that athletic complex. I don't know if you know why Columbia took that step even after the clearing of the encampment, or certainly it's relevant to ask, does the mayor have any influence over what happens there because he expressed his opinion for sure?

Elizabeth Kim: I don't know what the internal calculus was for Columbia University, but the question that was essentially put to the mayor was, were the arrests worth it, because the premise, particularly with the second sweep when they sent in police officers to clear the encampment but also arrest and remove the protestors that had taken over a campus building, the premise was, we need to take back the campus because we need to hold this university-wide commencement.

Then, there was the additional announcement that police would have a presence on the campus until May 15th. That's after the university-wide commencement was scheduled to happen. Not having that university-wide commencement is a little puzzling. The mayor made his feelings known. I think that he thinks this is in a way robbing those students of an experience that they were entitled to have which is even more of a shame because this is the same cohort of students who didn't have a high school graduation because of COVID.

Brian Lehrer: Was the mayor questioned yesterday on police behavior? Certainly, there are critics who say supposedly the police were going to act in a more professional way after a court ruling on how they behaved during the George Floyd protest in 2020. In some instances, there are other people saying the police acted very professionally in these-- and it's not just Columbia. There have been incidents at NYU. There was another one at FIT just yesterday that involved a lot of police activity with protestors engaging in various levels of behavior themselves.

Did any of this get challenged with the mayor yesterday as far as you know? There was one incident of apparently reportedly a gun going off, a police officer's gun, which the officer claims was by accident. Nobody was hurt, but how much under scrutiny is police behavior?

Elizabeth Kim: That wasn't directly addressed in the press conference, although, in hindsight, I think those are very good questions, and we really should have put those questions to the mayor. I think one of the problems of these off-topics is that there are so many questions that build up leading to it that I think many reporters-- we try to ask as many questions as we can, but they're just too many, and some fall by the wayside, in part because the news cycle is so intense that we lose that thread.

I will say that the issue about police behavior came up during a question that was put to the mayor about a complaint that the mayor's office had filed about a council member, Brooklyn Council Member Lincoln Restler, and his behavior toward city employees during a grilling at a hearing on sexual harassment policies. We do have the tape of that, and it's Jeff Coltin of Politico who's asking the question.

The mayor basically is responding to what he sees as inappropriate behavior by the council member. Then it segues into the Politico reporter asking him, what about the NYPD? He gives a very interesting answer there.

Brian Lehrer: Here's that 30-second clip.

Mayor Eric Adams: Because you are a council person, it does not give you the authority to degrade people and use your power to be disrespectful. There should be a level of decorum that's expected as you question. If that's normal behavior based on your observation, something is wrong.

Jeff Coltin: Is NYPD following such decorum?

Mayor Eric Adams: Yes, they do. I think we are the kindest and the gentlest and the most loving police department on the globe.

Brian Lehrer: Okay, Liz, I have to ask you to follow up on this one because some of the listeners know we've spoken before, and certainly, there's been other coverage of very sharp personal criticism by the chief of patrol of the NYPD, John Chell, on Twitter. City Council is even investigating him for some of his very personal and culture war-leaning tweets. Now the mayor is saying, "Oh, there should be more decorum on how council members speak." Where's the single standard there?

Elizabeth Kim: I thought that was a very smart comeback by Jeff Coltin. That refers, not just to the social media, but as you mentioned, the use of force during the arrest. We've talked about the use of pepper spray, for example. There are accounts that last night's arrests at FIT were very aggressive. I think the mayor had in mind the social media complaints, and he has repeatedly defended Chief Chell and also just the top brass who have recirculated these tweets and doubled down on them as well of their attacks towards journalists.

There was one toward a judge, and the latest one that prompted the council's investigation was toward a City Council member, Tiffany Cabán. This was a tweet in which Chell responded to Cabán's criticism of the mayor's decision. It wasn't just his decision, it was the mayor and Columbia University's decision to bring in police to the campus. What Chell tweeted back was-- I'll just read it verbatim. "I started to read this garbage and quickly realized this is coming from a person who hates our city and certainly does not represent the great people of New York City."

He ends it with a note that he has used before, and he says, "If you want change, seek the change you want by getting involved." Now, that can be read as a form of political speech of electioneering. He's essentially saying to people, "If you don't like this, show up at the voting booth and vote Tiffany Cabán out."

Brian Lehrer: If he's saying that an elected City Council member who makes a critique hates our city as a result is very Trumpian, right? So and so hates our country, hates our city, then what is it that Council Member Restler said that the mayor took such offense at?

Elizabeth Kim: Exactly. That's exactly it. I did not watch the hearing, but I have seen Council Member Restler question city employees before. He's one of many council members who are tough questioners, but this is actually what his constituents want to see. They want to see tough questions put to city employees. It's about accountability. Did Chief Chell cross a line? I think pairing these two and putting them in front of the mayor was a very fair point, and the way he responded I think it's quite surprising. It just strains credulity that he would say that this is a police department that does conduct itself in-- that holds itself.

Brian Lehrer: With decorum.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, decorum.

Brian Lehrer: We do have time for a few questions or comments for lead Eric Adams reporter Liz Kim, who generally joins us on Wednesdays after the mayor's Tuesday news conferences. 212-433-WNYC, call or text. Here's another clip from yesterday's news conference. The mayor was asked why he hasn't used the word genocide to describe what's happening in Gaza. The rationale behind the question being that local officials like AOC, Jamaal Bowman, and other City Council members have used it.

Obviously, many others don't. This is a contentious thing, whether that word actually applies, but the mayor was asked that question in that way. Here's his response.

Mayor Eric Adams: I think that we are in a place where people are using their words to define what they feel and their interpretation, and I have no right to tell people what they feel. I've been very clear of what I felt and what I'm feeling about what I'm seeing taking place across our city, our country, and the globe. I think people have a right to do that. I'm not going to do to them what they do to me. I'm not going to define their pain. They have a right to define their pain, and I'm going to define my pain, and I'm going to define my observation.

Brian Lehrer: Give me a political analysis of that. Why did the mayor just not-- and he didn't define his pain. Maybe he said on other occasions what he actually thinks about any side of that; Hamas's attack on October 7th, the holding of hostages to this day, Israel's military response. Has he defined his pain and what do you think he has politically calculated he should say and shouldn't say?

Elizabeth Kim: I thought that was an artful dodge of the question, but to the mayor's defense, he has in the past threaded the needle on this, or maybe this is his own honest assessment, is that he has said he wants the hostages returned and he also wants to see an end to the violence. I think he has been clear about that. I think what some people might find problematic about his response is that he's also essentially saying that this is a subjective question.

I don't know that everybody would agree with him on that, but this is a very polarizing issue. His response was in part I think honest. I think this is a very thorny issue for the mayor. I don't know that he himself has worked through it. In a great deal, when he's been asked about it, like I said, he's just given that same response, "I want the hostages returned, and I want an end to the violence." Then, again, I would say that that's also how many New Yorkers feel as well.

Brian Lehrer: And President Biden.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes.

Brian Lehrer: Joan in Hell's Kitchen, you're on WNYC. Joan looks like is calling about something that happened after the news conference yesterday. Joan, you're on WNYC with Liz Kim. Hi.

Joan: Thank you, Brian. Good morning, Ms. Kim. Last night, there was a defacing of a William Tecumseh Sherman statue, I believe by the Met. The mayor is already claiming that he's going to prosecute the people that did it. Talk about putting your thumb on the scale. He's already defended by Mr. Mastro, Ms. Zornberg, and Mr. Spiro for some other, I guess, his sexual harassment information. I want to know if he's going to use the taxpayers' money to also do that, which means he's drunk with power. Thank you.

Brian Lehrer: Joan, thank you. Well, you put a lot of things in there. He's accused of things. He's defending himself. Liz, this has come up before, right? Whether he's using taxpayer money to defend himself against things that may have been personal behavior, not on-the-clock behavior as mayor. I'm not sure that Randy Mastro has been hired officially. You can tell me. I know that former Giuliani aide was under consideration by the mayor. I'm not sure that he actually has hired Mastro at this point.

There was an incident last night of protesters around the Met Gala defacing that statue. Help us unpack that.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes. You're right, Brian. He has not officially nominated Randy Mastro yet. There was a lot of talk of that. The mayor himself has said that he believes Mastro would be a good candidate, but he has stopped short of making anything formal and official. With regard to the statue, it was actually two statues. I believe it was Monday night was the night of the Met Gala when that happened, when there were protesters who were marching up to the Upper East Side.

In the process, there were two memorials. One was a I think a World War I memorial. Then the other was the Sherman statue that the caller referred to that were vandalized. What the mayor did was-- Traditionally, the NYPD will put out a reward if there is a tip that leads to an arrest. The mayor went a little farther and he held a news conference, and he said that he would put $5,000 of his own money to any tipster that could help lead to the arrest.

The mayor has now framed this, not like-- Before, we were talking about the way he answered that genocide question. He's also pivoted away from talking about it as whether it's pro-Palestine or pro-Israel by looking at these protesters as anti-American. That has been the new talking point of the mayor in the wake of the Columbia protests. That's how he's characterized this kind of behavior, which is, I think you might think it's a smarter way of going at it because there will be plenty of New Yorkers who are unhappy to see anything in the park or any public building or property defaced.

He's appealing to a sense of patriotism. He's seeing the protesters as this generation that no longer love their country. I'm sure the protesters have something different to say about it, but that's the way the mayor is framing it.

Brian Lehrer: Though, again, to single standards, of all the crimes committed in the city while he's been mayor, only the defacing of a statue was seen as so serious or so personally offensive to him that he put his own money up to help catch the person.

Elizabeth Kim: Exactly, Brian. You can see that as him being a political opportunist.

Brian Lehrer: People have been killed, all kinds of things. Last thing, tomorrow, I see the mayor is going to Rome, and he's going to meet with the pope. What's that about?

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, the mayor is going to Rome. That was news that was leaked out on Monday. It was The New York Times who had some unnamed sources that put that story out. Then I think what happened was the mayor's office had to scramble and then confirm it and make it official. We do know that he is going to have a meeting with the pope. We don't know whether that will be a one-on-one meeting. The mayor was asked about that and he said whether it's one-on-one, two-on-one, three-on-one, he's just happy that as a Christian, he gets to meet the leader of the Catholic Church.

Brian Lehrer: Is this par for the course for a New York City mayor?

Elizabeth Kim: It is. This is a very common political pilgrimage that mayors make. In 2015, I believe, Mayor de Blasio did meet with Pope Francis. Before him, his predecessor, Mayor Bloomberg, also met with Pope Benedict. I will say, though, in those two instances, it was the popes who had come to New York City. At the same time, Bill de Blasio did make a visit to Vatican City, and I believe Mayor Bloomberg did as well. This is not unusual to take a trip to Rome. You could see it as very similar to New York City mayors making-- It's a rite of passage to also go to Israel, for example.

Brian Lehrer: Liz Kim covers Mayor Adams and joins us usually on Wednesdays after the mayor's Tuesday news conferences. I suspect we'll talk next week.

Elizabeth Kim: Yes, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Thanks, Liz.

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